tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Jan 30 17:47:23 2010
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Re: choH vs. choHmoH
On 1/30/2010 6:54 PM, André Müller wrote:
> 2) I was going through my dictionary to find more {moH}-verbs that derive
> from transitive ones and I've come across {muv} (join) and {muvmoH}
> (recruit). I think, we don't have any canon examples, or do we? Voragh?
> I always assumed, {muv} would be transitive, but now I see, this might not
> be the case, cause:
>
> If {muv} would be transitive "to join sth.", then {muvmoH} would mean "to
> cause to be joined" and its direct object would have to be a group or
> society like Starfleet, Facebook or maybe a party. Then the translation that
> Okrand gave us, "recruit" would be quite misleading.
> If {muv} is intransitive "to join", then {muvmoH} simply means "to cause so.
> to join". The group or society being joined would have to be expressed with
> {-Daq}... or maybe {-vaD}.
No, if {muv} means "join something," then my {-moH} theory would work
exactly the same as with {ghoj} "learn something."
Hol Daghoj
you learn the language
Hol DaghojmoH
you teach the language
(you cause a change of condition in which someone unstated learns
the language)
puqvaD Hol DaghojmoH
you teach the child the language
(you cause a change of condition, for the benefit of the child, in
which someone whose identity contexts tells you is the child learns
the language)
mangghom Damuv
you join the army
mangghom DamuvmoH
you recruit (someone) into the army
(you cause a change of condition in which someone unstated joins the
army)
ta'vaD mangghom DamuvmoH
you recruit (someone) into the army for the Emperor
(you cause a change of condition, for the benefit of the emperor, in
which someone unstated joins the army)
(Notice how {-vaD} didn't fit into a nice, neat, packaged formula here?)
> Thus, we made quite a bunch of mistakes in the Klingon translation of
> Facebook, there we have:
>
> Facebook yImuv! = Join Facebook!
> FacebookDaq juppu'lI' tImuvmoH! = Invite your friends to join Facebook!
>
> But now I think it should rather be:
>
> FacebookDaq yImuv! = Join (in) Facebook!
> FacebookDaq juppu'lI' tImuvmoH! = Let your friends join (in) Facebook!
> [literally]
No, it'd be
Facebook yImuv!
join Facebook
juppu'lI'vaD Facebook yImuvmoH!
make your friends join Facebook
(for your friends, cause a change in which someone determined by
context, obviously your friends, joins Facebook)
> Oh my... if that's true, quite a bunch of translations have to be changed.
Yes, we've been operating on the "subject causes object to verb"
paradigm for a very long time.
--
SuStel
http://www.trimboli.name/
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