tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Nov 23 13:32:19 2009

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RE: [SPAM:#] Re: The topic marker -'e'

Steven Boozer (sboozer@uchicago.edu)



SuStel:
>>> Not all verbs of action have agents. For instance:
>>>
>>>    bom Qoy puq
>>>    the child hears the song
>>>       puq = experiencer
>>>       bom = theme

Chris:
>>This is quite interesting, actually, since Klingon actually contrasts
>>intentionality with non-intentionality. Compare:
>>
>>  bom Qoypu' puq
>>  the child heard the song
>>
>>  bom Qoyta' puq
>>  the child heard the song 
>>(by eavesdropping? Putting one's ear up to the wall with a cup?)

I would think more like straining to hear, say by cupping one's ear.  Or would that be *{Qoyqu'}?  BTW we do have the verb {Daq} "eavesdrop":

  lojmIt poSDaq Daq pagh 
  No one eavesdrops at an open door. PK

and the verb {jIH} "monitor":

  jolbogh ghom wa'DIch DamuvlaHmeH De' DaneHchugh, Se'vam yIjIHtaH 
  Stay tuned for information on how you can be among the first to
   beam aboard! STX

Mark J. Reed:
> Interesting. What then is the difference between {Qoy'} and {'Ij},
> which is glossed as "listen"?

Fiat Knox:
| *Qoy* is the act of hearing, particularly of hearing something spoken,
| or a significant or meaningful sound - *'Ij* might merely mean to use
| one's ears to perceive a sound.

TKW 31:  The verb {Qoy} means "hear", not just "listen". One must actually perceive and understand that which is being said.

|   "yI'Ij. nuq DaQoy?"
|   "pagh."
|   "bIlughchu'."
|
| It might be the difference between "to look" (use one's eyes) and "to
| see" (to register what one's ocular perceptions are showing to one's
| brain). *Qoy* might mean to let a message soak in, as in the Klingon
| anthem "Qoy qeylIS puqloD" - which is why is isn't "'Ij qeylIS puqloD"
| instead.

{Qoy} "hear" in canon:

  qaQoy 
  I hear you. KLS

  'IwlIj ghogh yIQoy 
  Listen to the voice of your blood. TKW

  jach SuvwI' 'e' yIQoy 
  Hear the warrior cry out! TKW 

  Qoy qeylIS puqloD.  Qoy puqbe'pu'.
  Hear! Sons of Kahless. Hear! Daughters too. (Anthem) 

  De'vetlh vIQoy, vaj jIQuch 
  I am happy to hear that information. KGT

  'arlogh wab Qoylu'pu'? 
  How many times has someone heard the sound? 
  How many times has the sound been heard? [st.k 2/99]

  qen 'arlogh Qoylu'pu'? 
  Recently, how many times has someone heard it? 
  (i.e. What time is it?) [st.k 2/99] 

{'Ij} "listen" in canon:

  jI'Ij 
  I listen. KLS

  DIvI' Se' wI'IjtaHvIS DaH ngoqDe' wIHevta' 
  We've just received an encoded message on the Federation frequency. (ST5 notes) 

SuStel once wrote:

  I tend to believe that Okrand uses {Qoy} when using an object,
  and {'Ij} if he's not. That's why he uses {'IwlIj ghogh yIQoy}
  for "Listen to the voice of your blood."  His reasoning about
  the difference between hear and listen seems a little backwards,
  though.

which was as good an explanation as any for Okrand's odd usage, at least until that example from Okrand's ST5 notes was published in HolQeD 8.4.


>What do y'all think of Qoyta'?  Can one use -ta' with verbs that would
>otherwise have experiencer subjects?
 
{Qoy} may be a bad example verb for the agent discussion.  What about {Hev} "receive"?  E.g.:

  DIvI' Se' wI'IjtaHvIS DaH ngoqDe' wIHevta' 
  We've just received an encoded message on the Federation frequency. (ST5 notes)

  HoD, De' wIHevta' 
  Captain, new data. (ST5)

Fiat Knox:
| chaq nuQoyta' jagh ghoqwI' - "An enemy spy may have listened in on us."

Chris:
>>Aha! I assume that example is cannon?  Very cool, then...

Sorry, no.  This sentence isn't canon, just Fiat Knox.  Curiously, we have no examples of {ghoqwI'} in canon. 


 
-- 
Voragh                          
Canon Master of the Klingons








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