tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jul 27 10:59:04 2010
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Re: 'u': the first authentic Klingon opera on earth
lojmIt tI'wI' nuv
replies in line below.
On Jul 27, 2010, at 1:11 PM, Steven Boozer wrote:
> Voragh:
>>> Fascinating. Unfortunately my computer doesn't have a sound card
>>> installed and so I can't hear Okrand's "Message to Kronos". Can you post
>>> Okrand's Klingon text? Here are the English subtitles from his YouTube
>>> video:
>
> lojmIt tI'wI' nuv:
>> Here's what I hear Okrand say (checking back with the subtitles). I'll
>> put them in line below.
>>> ...
>>> We Terrans will be performing an authentic battle opera.
>> may' ghe'naQ numuchlu' tera'nganpu'.
>>
>> [Weird grammar alert:]
>> [Very loose translation, very strange grammar. Maybe someone else hears
>> something that makes more sense?]
>
> This could be {may' ghe'naQna'} "an authentic battle opera", so I would expect:
No, it isn't. We might wish that he had added {-na'} to mean "authentic", but I've gone back and listened. It's not there.
> may' ghe'naQna' lumuch tera'nganpu'.
>
> Are you sure you hear {muchlu'}?
Listening again, he definitely says {...muchrup}. It's not a suffix I've heard a lot of times, and in recordings, it's not always easy to recognize the difference between "l" and "r" or between "p" and a glottal stop. A lot of listening involves fulfilling expectation based on context. I wasn't expecting {-rup}, but having it pointed out to me, that's definitely what he said.
> Felix:
> | I believe he says:
> | may' ghe'naQ lumuchrup tera'nganpu'.
> | {The humans are prepared to present a battle opera.}
>
> Felix's suggestion makes more sense. So:
>
> may' ghe'naQna' lumuchrup tera'nganpu'
> the Terrans are prepared to perform an authentic battle opera
Nope. There is no {-na'}. Other than that, you got it right, since Felix got it right.
> BTW, note how he finessed "we Terrans" as simply {tera'nganpu'}. I would have done it as:
>
> ? may' ghe'naQna' wImuch tera'nganpu'
Well, you are the canon king. Has he ever given us an example of first person plural subject prefix with an explicit subject? Maybe Klingons don't do that.
>>> The name of the opera is {'u'}.
>> 'u' 'oH ghe'naQ pong.
>
> Not {pong'e'}?
Nope. Okrand has apparently forgotten that we put {-'e'} on the subjects of pronouns throughout the entire recording. He is consistent in this omission.
>>> {'u'} will be the first authentic battle opera performed on our planet.
>> yuQmajDaq may' ghe'naQ wa'DIch wIQoybogh 'oH 'u'.
>>
>> [He apparently omitted the {-'e'} from {'u'}.]
>
> As he did in the previous line. Also, no {-na'} "authentic" on {ghe'naQ}
Right. No {-na'} anywhere in the recording.
>>> When, you ask?
>> ghorgh lumuch?
>>
>> [Rather loose translation, but I understand why.]
>
> "When will they perform it?"
Yep.
>>> In the days that follow the summer solstice
>> poH tuj bI' reS numbogh wa' jaj.
>>
>> [WTF? Surely I am mistaken here. Maybe {bIleS numbogh wa' jaj}?]
>
> {bI'reS} "beginning (of an opera, play, story, speech, etc.)" is right (see HQ 12.2:8):
>
> poH tuj bI'reS
> the beginning of the hot period (season)
Again, Felix came through. I didn't remember the word {bI'reS}. I've never heard it spoken before. He also nailed {nung}, which sounds a lot like {num} in a recording.
This use of {bI'reS} could either be an example to show a way in which it can be generalized for use to describe the beginnings of almost anything... or not. The expression is cryptic enough that Felix and I both struggled to interpret it as Okrand spoke it.
I respect what Okrand has done in creating the language. I also respect how hard it is to perform in front of a camera, speaking a language he doesn't use very often. Meanwhile, even with all that respect, I often wince when he tries to stretch the language to fit a translation he's been given, or when he forgets basic stuff like putting {-'e'} after a subject of a pronoun.
> Felix:
> | Sounds to me like:
> | poH tuj bI'reS nungbogh wa' jaj.
> | {A day which precedes the warm season's (opera/play/speech/...)-beginning.}
> | or {A warm-season-beginning which precedes a day.}
> |
> | He might have meant something like "The opera begins on a day which is
> | preceded by the warm period of time."
> |
> | That, or the Summer solstice is called poH tuj bI'reS ("the warm period's
> | beginning", "the summer's opening act"), and he meant
> | wa' jaj'e' nungbogh toH puj bI'reS
> | {a day which is preceded by the warm season's opening act}.
> | That makes some sense; the Klingon day cycle goes from sunrise to sunrise, so
> | perhaps the Summer solstice is not "Midsummer" in their minds, but rather the
> | first day of Summer. ...although at the same time, while the days keep getting
> | brighter following the dawn, the days keep getting darker after the Summer
> | solstice, so that wouldn't make it much a poH tuj.
>
> Is Okrand being accurate here? Does the September 9 premier occur one day before the summer solstice?
Perhaps on Qo'noS, it's the day before summer solstice. Actually, the English subtitle doesn't say "the day before summer solstice. It says, "In the days that follow the summer solstice". Please note that the first day of summer is not the summer solstice. The summer solstice is a bit before the middle of the summer. The only reason it is not the middle of the summer is the hysteresis of weather following the application of solar heat.
In other words, it takes time to heat up the mass of earth, water and air. So, the hottest application of solar heat (summer solstice -- the longest day), doesn't make for the hottest day because of thermal inertia.
But I digress.
Damn. Fire alarm. Gotta go.
>>> in the Year of Kahless 846.
>> qeylIS DIS chorghvatlh loSmaH jav qaStaHvIS.
>
> {qaStaHvIS} should precede the year number:
>
> qaStaHvIS qeylIS DIS chorghvatlh loSmaH jav.
>
>
>>> We will place a homing device transmitting this message at the site
>>> of the opera.
>> ghe'naQ Daqvo' QInvam wIlab.
>
> "We will transmit this message from site of the opera."
>
> Hmm... I would have added {-qa'} "again" or {-taH} "continuously" to the verb.
>
> Pity. No new word for "homing device".
>
>
> Thanks for transcribing this guys.
>
>
> --
> Voragh
> Canon Master of the Klingons
>
>
>