tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Aug 23 09:10:00 2004

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Re: {Qub} {Har} {Sov} {tu'}

Steven Boozer ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 

Philip:
> > It's official, then, that {Sov} has both meanings? Or, at least, very
> > widely accepted?

Quvar:
>easy: {Sov} = "know" ;-)  seriously, we have canon for both meanings.
>
>[TKD:]
>   {jIHtaHbogh naDev vISovbe'}
>   "I'm lost." (I don't know the here I am at) (etwas kennen)
>
>   {qama'pu' DIHoH net Sov}
>   "One knows we kill prisoners"    (etwas wissen)
>
>Power Klingon:
>   {De' lI' Sovlu'DI', chaq Do'Ha'.}
>   "Knowledge of useful information may be unfortunate"
>   "As soon as one knows..." (daten kennen)
>
>   {meb, lut tlhaQ DaSov'a'}
>   "Guest, do you know any funny stories?"  (witz kennen)
>
>CK:
>   {naDev vay' DaSov'a'}
>   "Do you know anyone here?"
>
>   {ghobe'. naDev vay' vISovbe'}
>   "No. I don't know anyone here."  (jemand kennen)

For those interested, here's the rest of the canon for {Sov}:

   jISovbe'
   I don't know. TKD

   qama'pu' DIHoH 'e' luSov
   They know we kill prisoners. TKD

   De' Sov qar'a' HoD = De' Sov HoD qar'a'
   The captain knows the information, right? TKD

   HoD, naDev maH 'e' luSovbe'.
   Captain, they don't know we're here. (ST5 notes)

   tugh luSovbej.
   They will in a moment. (ST5 notes)

   Daq Sovbejbe'taH qIrq ...
   Kirk cannot know the location... ST6

   DaSovbej'a'?
   Are you sure [of that]? ST6

   DaqwIj vISovbe'.
   I am lost ("I do not know my location.") PK

   bISovbejbe'DI' tImer
   When in doubt, surprise them. TKW

   loS... qIb HeHDaq, 'u' SepmeyDaq Sovbe'lu'bogh lenglu'meH He
    ghoSlu'bogh retlhDaq 'oHtaH
   It waits... on the edge of the galaxy, beside a passage to
    unknown regions of the universe. DS99

   qagh largh SuvwI' ghung.  Sum qagh 'e' Sov.
   The hungry warrior smells the gagh. He/she knows the gagh is nearby.
   [HQ 12/1998]

   The slang word [{na'}], a verb, is used in such constructions as
   {jIna'} ("I am positive [about something I just said]"; literally,
   "I am salty"] and {bIna''a'} ("Are you sure?"; literally, "Are you
   salty?"). These kinds of meanings may be expressed without using
   slang by employing such verbs as {Honbe'} ("not doubt") or {Sovbej}
   ("know for certain").  [KGT 157]

ngabwI':
>>Voragh, could you please, pretty please, show us what you know about {Qub},
>>{Har}, and {Sov}? Also, any other examples of {tu'} in the sense of "find it
>>useful"?

Here's what I have for {tu'} "discover, find; observe, notice":

   Qu'vaD lI' net tu'bej
   "You will find it useful." ST3
   One certainly finds it useful for the mission. TKD
   One will certainly observe that it is useful to the mission. TKD

   lI' 'e' Datu'
   You will find it useful. PK

   reH HIvje'lIjDaq 'Iwghargh Datu'jaj
   May you always find a bloodworm in your glass! PK

   QumwI'wIj vItu'laHbe'
   I can't find my communicator. TKD

   QuvlIjDaq yIHmey tu'be'lu'jaj
   May your coordinates be free of tribbles! PK

and {Qub} "think":

   The correct way to say "Do you think that...?" is {... 'e' DaQub'a'?}
   ({'e'} is "that", referring to something that precedes it in the sentence
   or in the discussion; {DaQub'a'} is "do you think it?"). (BBS)

   Literally "be vertical", this word [chong] is used to refer to one's
   intellect, as in {chong tlhIngan SuvwI'} ("The Klingon warrior is profound"
   --literally, "The Klingon warrior is vertical"). In its literal sense,
   this word is the opposite of {SaS} ("be horizontal"), and as a slang term,
   it is an opposite as well, as {SaS} is used to mean "be shallow, 
superficial"
   ... An equivalent meaning may be expressed without slang by using a word 
such
   as {Qubchu'} ("think perfectly, think clearly"), as in {Qubchu' tlhIngan 
SuvwI'}
   ("The Klingon warrior thinks clearly")." (KGT 148-49)

and {Har} "believe":

   qaHarbe'; bo'Dagh'a' Dalo'
   I don't believe you; you're using a big scoop
   (i.e. "You're exaggerating") KGT

   yIHarQo'! nepwI' ghaH!
   Do not believe him! He lies. ("He's a liar") [TNG "A Matter of Honor" 
(Okrand?)]

and, finally, here's a post by Okrand that {lI' 'e' Datu'bej}:

   From: "Marc Okrand" <[email protected]>
   Newsgroups: msn.onstage.startrek.expert.okrand
   Date: 01 Jul 1997
   Subject: Re: questions as objects

   These two notes about "questions as objects" actually raise a large number
   of issues, so this will end up being a stretched-out (over time) response.
   But here's a start.

   All four words asked about ({tul} "hope," {Qub} "think," {Sov} "know," and
   {SIv} "wonder") can be used in the construction {S 'e' V}, where S is a 
sentence,
   {'e'} is the pronoun ("that") which refers to a previous topic (in this case
   S), and V is one of the verbs listed above (as well as some others).

   If the sentence (S) is {tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh} "you speak Klingon", it's 
OK to say:

       {tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh 'e' vItul} "I hope that you speak Klingon"

       {tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh 'e' vIQub} "I think that you speak Klingon"

       {tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh 'e' vISov} "I know that you speak Klingon"

       {tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh 'e' vISIv} "I wonder if you speak Klingon"

   The fourth example is weird from an English translation point of view, but
   it falls right in line in Klingon.  If the English translation matched the
   pattern of the other three sentences, it would be "I wonder that you speak
   Klingon."  In English, this means something like "I'm surprised that you
   speak Klingon" or "I don't understand how it can be that you speak
   Klingon," but this is not what the Klingon sentence means.  The Klingon
   sentence means something more like "I am curious about whether you speak
   Klingon."  The clumsiness here is the English, not the Klingon.

   One other verb that can be used in the V slot in such sentences is {Hon}
   "doubt":

       {tlhIngan Hol Dajatlh 'e' vIHon} "I doubt that you speak Klingon"

   I'll return on another occasion to the question of whether the sentence
   preceding the {'e'} in such sentences can be a question.  This is a more
   general issue than whether you can do it with {SIv} "wonder" and I need some
   clear guidance from Maltz.




-- 
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

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