tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jul 13 06:29:48 2009

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RE: vIl - be ridgy in HolQeD 13:1

Steven Boozer (

qe'San (Jon Brown) wrote:
>>   QuchwIj pIm QuchlIj
>>   Your forehead is different to mine (i.e. different family)
>> Although thinking about that sentence; can [pIm] be used like that
>> or would I need to say that differently to get that meaning?

>Based on {pIm} being glossed simply as "be different" and not as
>"differ (from)", I wouldn't use it that way.  I'd say it like this:
>   pIm QuchwIj QuchlIj je
>   My forehead and your forehead are different.

{pIm} "be different" in canon:

pImlaw' romuluSngan be' porgh 
I've heard Romulan women are different. (ST5 notes) 

may' bom pIm bom 
sing a different battle song
(idiom for "speak of another matter entirely") KGT

  DaH may' bom pIm Dabom 
  Now you sing a different battle song. 
  (i.e. "Well, that's another matter altogether.") KGT

  may' bom pIm wIbom 
  We sing a different battle song. KGT

  may' bom pIm lubom 
  They sing a different battle song. KGT 

motlh pIm 'ejyo' Dujmey 
Unlike most Starfleet vessels... 
[i.e. "Starfleet vessels are usually different..."] SP3 

QuchlIj vIl law' QuchwIj vIl pIm 
your forehead is not as ridgy as my forehead (HQ 13.1:10)

Cf. also {Sar} "be varied, be various" and antonyms {rap} "be the same" and {nIb} "be identical" -- all qualities.

>I'd also be tempted to use {tuqvol} instead of {Quch} here, to help
>suggest your parenthetical context.

{no''och} might also work:
KGT 28f.:  The standard word for this prominent part of Klingon anatomy is {Quch}, and this word is found with this meaning throughout the Empire.  In addition, however, practically every dialect has its own alternate word for forehead.  Indeed, {Quch} is simply the word for forehead in the First City.  Among these other forms are: {boD, jargh, mIQ, 'aQlo', Huy'Dung, tuqvol, no''och}.  While the first four of these words are simply regionalisms for forehead, the last three can be analyzed, at least partially.   {Huy'Dung} is probably from {Huy' Dung} ("above the eyebrow[s]").  The word {tuqvol} may contain the word {tuq} ("house [lineage]") because family resemblances can be seen in forehead ridges.  The second element, {vol}, however, is otherwise unknown. Similarly, the first syllable of {no''och} may derive from {no'} ("ancestors"), again suggesting something about genealogy.  The second syllable, {'och}, probably resembles {'och} ("tunnel") only accidentally; there is no reason to think that "ancestors' tunnel" is a way to say "forehead".

Note there's a relevant photo in KGT (p. 28) showing that forehead patterns within Houses are shared and inherited:

  "The casting of Alexander's forehead displays the {Quch} of a
   proud house."  [photo from TNG "Parallels"]

Canon Master of the Klingons

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