tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Apr 18 03:59:42 2012

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] The Lord's Prayer

Philip Newton ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol ghojwI']

On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 19:44, Robyn Stewart <[email protected]> wrote:
> some of the interpretations I looked at seemed to think
> that bread represented not only more than just bread, but more than just
> food in terms of our daily survival requirements. I don't know the Greek for
> bread, so I don't know what the word is the original, but it might be.

Liddell and Scott ( at
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aalphabetic+letter%3D*a%3Aentry+group%3D316%3Aentry%3Da%29%2Frtos
; a general Ancient Greek dictionary) and
http://biblelexicon.org/matthew/6-11.htm (with lexicon entries
presumably about specifically Biblical/Koiné Greek) both call it
simply "bread, loaf, cake of bread".

>> as we forgive our debtors.
>> maHvaD yembogh nuvpu' DIbIjbe'moH.
>
>
> I'm not quite getting what the -moH does there.

I'm guessing it's supposed to be a {-mo'}: "Don't punish us because of
our sins, _because_ we don't punish those who sin against us, either".

Though that doesn't capture the "as" all that well. (But I'm not sure
whether "... law' ... rap" or "rur" work well when connecting verb
phrases rather than nouns.)

Or perhaps he understood "as" in the meaning of "since" ("He didn't
come, as it was raining") rather than in the meaning of "in the same
way as" ("We're raising our child as our parents raised us")?

>> For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever.
>>
>> reH SoHvaD wo', HoS je, batlh je.
>
>
> The "For" here is in the sense of "because, but there's no verb to attach a
> -mo' to. I'm not sure that that part of the meaning is vital. The
> commentaries I looked at doesn't mention it and my latin isn't good enough
> to see if that's there.

I think it's meaning B of
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aalphabetic+letter%3D*o%3Aentry+group%3D77%3Aentry%3Do%28%2Fti^
- so something like "because".

As to whether that's vital or not to the sense of the sentence I'll leave open.

> It makes me smile (in a good way) because if it were
> "Thine be the kingdom, etc," then you'd have to use {taHjaj wo'}. And that
> rocks, doesn't it?

That would indeed be awesome.

Cheers,
Philip
-- 
Philip Newton <[email protected]>

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