tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Feb 03 14:08:26 2010
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RE: Honoured
Points taken!
"QInlIj vIHevmo' jIquv" vIjatlh vIneHbej.
/buSwI'
Quoting Steven Boozer <[email protected]>:
> buSwI':
>> Finally, I seems to me that {batlh QInlIj vIHev} would be even less
>> polite; I could say that if I was Quvar's equal, for instance.
>
> Personally, I would be reluctant to use {batlh} "with honor,
> honorably, in an honorable fashion" to refer to my own actions. It
> smacks of {DavHam} "false honor".
>
> I could find no examples of {batlh} used in the 1st person singular
> with {jIH}, {jI-} or {vI-}, although I did find:
>
> batlh qaghojmoHpu'
> It has been an honor to instruct you. CK
>
> batlh qaghojmoH
> It has been an honor to instruct you. PK
>
> {qa-} "I [do something] to you" may be acceptable here because
> you're really complimenting the person you're addressing and not
> yourself.
>
> I also found three examples of {batlh} used with the 1st person
> plural prefix:
>
> batlh maHegh
> [We die honorably.] CK
>
> pIj maSuvpu' batlh maSuvpu' 'ej maQapbejta'
> In our many battles, we have fought with honor and achieved VICTORY!
> (Hallmark)
>
> batlh maHeghbej 'ej yo' qIjDaq vavpu'ma' DImuv. pa' reH maSuvtaHqu'
> Then we die with honor and join our fathers in the Black Fleet where
> we battle forever. (Anthem)
>
> {ma-} may be acceptable because you're referring to the group and
> not yourself alone.
>
> And while we're speaking of honor (and the lack thereof), there are
> several more verbs to consider in addition to {quv} "be
> honored/honorable} and {quvmoH} "honor" vs. {quvHa'} "be dishonored"
> and {quvHa'moH} "dishonor":
>
> HoQ be honored falsely, be falsely honorable (v.)
> HoQmoH honor falsely (v.)
>
> Qaq behave falsely honorably, behave in a falsely honorable manner (v.)
> QaqmoH cause to behave in a falsely honorable manner (v.)
>
> mIl be formerly honored (v.)
> mIlmoH honor formerly (v.)
>
> Okrand discussed the nuances in HolQeD:
>
> HQ 12.3:8f.: Maltz [...] said [{HoQ}] could be used in the same
> places {quv} "be honored, be honorable" could be used, but only then
> the honor was not legitimate. Thus, a delegate to the Klingon Empire
> could well be described as a {Duy quv} "honored emissary", but if it
> turned out that he or she was a spy, the phrase {Duy HoQ} "falsely
> honored emissary" would be appropriate. [...] {Qaq}... is used in
> cases where one misrepresents oneself in order to be accorded honor
> one is not entitled to, and in that way it is different from {toj}
> "deceive" and {ghet} "pretend", neither of which has this kind of
> connection to honor [...] Maltz mentioned one noun associated with
> these verbs, {DavHam}, which he defined simply as "false honor", but
> which really covers the same semantic ground as both {HoQ} and {Qaq}
> (but not really {mIl}). {DavHam} is different from {quvHa'ghach}
> "dishonor (noun)" in that the latter does not imply seeming to be
> honorable or the appearance of honorability, but
> rather the lack of or loss of honor.)
>
>
> --
> Voragh
> Canon Master of the Klingons
>
>
>
>
>
>
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