tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat Jan 05 16:14:00 2013
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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Fwd: RE: Klingon Scrabble
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<body>
Not sure what you mean by "first book". I think I posted nine
or ten of twelve 'ay''a'mey to the list. The total story is over
75,000 words. How many 'ay''a'mey do you have there? <br><br>
- Qov<br><br>
At 09:03 '?????' 1/5/2013, Noah Bogart wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">I just checked your nuq bop bomÂ
'ay''a'mey, having replaced all of the non-standard letters (Q, tlh, etc)
with their xifan equivalent. Here aremy results:<br><br>
Freq.Letter<br>
1406a<br>
1138z (')<br>
779o<br>
732h (H)<br>
688e<br>
593i (I)<br>
553d (D)<br>
543u<br>
506j<br>
426v<br>
385m<br>
378g<br>
333c (ch)<br>
327s (S)<br>
322n<br>
312l<br>
298b<br>
298q<br>
253y<br>
243r<br>
241t<br>
212w<br>
204p<br>
198x (tlh)<br>
180k (Q)<br>
145f (ng)<br><br>
That doesn't seem to match up with your results, but that be from my only
checking your first book, and you checking your entire book.<br><br>
<br>
On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 12:27 AM, Robyn Stewart
<<a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>>
wrote:<br>
<dl>
<dd>I followed Felix's advice deleted all occurrences of the most common
character names, then deleted all X, Z and F and then redid the search.
It's still a little skewed towards the letters that are the same in xifan
as tlhIngan--I didn't strip out the pIqaD titles, so for example m is M
in xifan but y is y, meaning that yay will be counted where it occurs in
an 'ay' per but may won't be.<br><br>
<dd>qaghwI' is still the second most frequent letter, so a good Scrabble
set should have as many qaghwI'mey as 'atmey, or at least as  many as
'etmey.<br><br>
<dd>Freq. Â Letter<br>
<dd>72543<br>
<dd>39022 Â a<br>
<dd>38237 Â '<br>
<dd>21465 Â e<br>
<dd>20702 Â o<br>
<dd>19952 Â I<br>
<dd>19760 Â H<br>
<dd>18060 Â u<br>
<dd>15987 Â j<br>
<dd>13557 Â D<br>
<dd>12305 Â m<br>
<dd>11565 Â l<br>
<dd>9979 Â Â v<br>
<dd>9892 Â Â q<br>
<dd>9647 Â Â ch - this was the frequency for c, with h at 9633, the
discrepancy explained by a few non-Klingon words with c or h<br>
<dd>9530 Â Â b<br>
<dd>9359 Â Â S<br>
<dd>9271 Â Â Z --> gh<br>
<dd>9145 Â Â p<br>
<dd>8695 Â Â t<br>
<dd>8105 Â Â n<br>
<dd>7648 Â Â y<br>
<dd>7422 Â Â X --> tlh<br>
<dd>6611 Â Â w<br>
<dd>5793 Â Â Q<br>
<dd>4978 Â Â r<br>
<dd>3744 Â Â F --> ng<br>
<dd>-------<br>
<dd>Here are the other symbols and non-Klingon letters. (I moved the
mevwI' and yevwI' down to here). They are uninteresting, but just give
you an idea of what other junk is in the file. I honestly think most of
it is from xifan (the way I have to write in order to use my pIqaD font).
There is a more interesting list following this one.<br><br>
<dd>14365 Â .<br>
<dd>5067 Â Â ,<br>
<dd>1122 Â Â ?<br>
<dd>691 Â Â !<br>
<dd>171 Â Â -<br>
<dd>127 Â Â O<br>
<dd>126 Â Â @<br>
<dd>121 Â Â A<br>
<dd>94 Â Â Â U<br>
<dd>80 Â Â Â E<br>
<dd>69 Â Â Â &<br>
<dd>66 Â Â Â M<br>
<dd>63 Â Â Â L<br>
<dd>62 Â Â Â T<br><br>
<dd>62 Â Â Â :<br>
<dd>59 Â Â Â G<br>
<dd>57 Â Â Â #<br>
<dd>57 Â Â Â $<br>
<dd>57 Â Â Â %<br>
<dd>55 Â Â Â ^<br>
<dd>54 Â Â Â N<br>
<dd>51 Â Â Â (<br>
<dd>51 Â Â Â )<br>
<dd>47 Â Â Â s<br>
<dd>47 Â Â Â *<br>
<dd>42 Â Â Â J<br><br>
<dd>41 Â Â Â P<br>
<dd>40 Â Â Â C<br>
<dd>39 Â Â Â K<br>
<dd>39 Â Â Â B<br>
<dd>38 Â Â Â g<br>
<dd>35 Â Â Â k<br>
<dd>30 Â Â Â Y<br>
<dd>30 Â Â Â R<br>
<dd>29 Â Â Â W<br>
<dd>27 Â Â Â i<br>
<dd>26 Â Â Â V<br>
<dd>18 Â Â Â d<br>
<dd>6 Â Â Â "<br>
<dd>6 Â Â Â ;<br>
<dd>5 Â Â Â 1<br>
<dd>5 Â Â Â 2<br>
<dd>4 Â Â Â 5<br>
<dd>3 Â Â Â 9<br>
<dd>3 Â Â Â 0<br>
<dd>3 Â Â Â 3<br>
<dd>3 Â Â Â /<br>
<dd>3 Â Â Â 6<br>
<dd>2 Â Â Â 8<br>
<dd>2 Â Â Â 7<br>
<dd>1 Â Â Â 4<br>
<dd>1 Â Â Â [<br>
<dd>1 Â Â Â ]<br>
<dd>1<br>
<dd>1    ©<br>
<dd>3152   «<br>
<dd>4 Â Â Â Â<br>
<dd>3129   »<br><br>
<dd>And now I have a theory why j is the third most common consonant
after ' and H. Â There's a lot of dialogue in the story, so a lot of
jatlh, but that didn't do it, because tlh is one of the least common
letters. It's all the first person statements: jIlegh and jIjaH and
jIyaj. Â Here are the top words used:<br><br>
<dd>Unique words:22058 Â Total words:71912<br>
<dd>Freq. Â Word<br>
<dd>2152 Â Â jatlh<br>
<dd>1751 Â Â .<br>
<dd>1736 Â Â 'ej<br>
<dd>1265 Â Â 'e'<br>
<dd>1118 Â Â ,<br>
<dd>1089 Â Â 'ach<br>
<dd>513 Â Â je<br>
<dd>429 Â Â HoD. Â - three of my major characters are
captains.<br>
<dd>410 Â Â jatlh<br>
<dd>394 Â Â tlhIngan - interesting. I really wasn't aware I
used the word that much. I guess the aliens do.<br>
<dd>341 Â Â HoD<br>
<dd>295 Â Â 'a<br>
<dd>277 Â Â je.<br>
<dd>273 Â Â Duj<br>
<dd>265 Â Â ?<br>
<dd>263 Â Â ghIq - pretty funny considering the word didn't
exist a few years ago.<br>
<dd>258 Â Â qImyal - a character name I didn't take out<br>
<dd>254 Â Â DaH<br>
<dd>210 Â Â chaq<br>
<dd>204 Â Â yaS<br>
<dd>201 Â Â wa'<br>
<dd>185 Â Â latlh<br>
<dd>185 Â Â Hoch<br>
<dd>183 Â Â law'<br>
<dd>180 Â Â vay'<br>
<dd>177 Â Â neH<br>
<dd>169 Â Â cha'<br>
<dd>158 Â Â qaStaHvIS<br>
<dd>156 Â Â ghaH<br>
<dd>150 Â Â jatlh.<br>
<dd>147 Â Â HoD,<br>
<dd>147 Â Â loQ<br>
<dd>143 Â Â wej<br>
<dd>139 Â Â Hol<br>
<dd>137 Â Â pa'<br>
<dd>135 Â Â SIbI'<br>
<dd>135 Â Â lojmIt<br>
<dd>133 Â Â pagh<br>
<dd>133 Â Â ghaytan<br>
<dd>132 Â Â De'<br>
<dd>127 Â Â neH.<br>
<dd>126 Â Â Hung<br>
<dd>122 Â Â vaD - from vajarvaD and 'eSSImvaD, but I deleted
the character names stranding the suffix.<br>
<dd>115 Â Â vaj<br>
<dd>110 Â Â meH<br>
<dd>105 Â Â qama'<br>
<dd>103 Â Â QumwI'<br>
<dd>101 Â Â net - interesting! Â Never thought I used that
that much.<br>
<dd>100 Â Â be'<br>
<dd>95 Â Â Â 'avwI'<br>
<dd>94 Â Â Â Sa'<br>
<dd>94 Â Â Â nov<br>
<dd>93 Â Â Â pay'<br>
<dd>93 Â Â Â wo'<br>
<dd>93 Â Â Â quv - although the character counting is case
sensitive, the word-counting isn't, so this is Quv and quv<br>
<dd>93 Â Â Â tIr - ha ha, if you've read the story you know
why this one, love ya QeS.<br>
<dd>93 Â Â Â ghop<br>
<dd>91 Â Â Â mIch<br>
<dd>90 Â Â Â qatlh<br>
<dd>89 Â Â Â Qel/qel<br>
<dd>87 Â Â Â not<br>
<dd>85 Â Â Â 'ungya - oops, another character name<br>
<dd>85 Â Â Â qImyal.<br>
<dd>83 Â Â Â ravDaq - okay that's just funny. Â A lot of
things take place on the floor in this novel.<br>
<dd>81 Â Â Â Qa'bar - another character, didn't think he was
that important<br>
<dd>80 Â Â Â nom<br>
<dd>80 Â Â Â loD<br>
<dd>80 Â Â Â bIQ - that does make sense<br>
<dd>79 Â Â Â beq<br>
<dd>78 Â Â Â HoS<br>
<dd>78 Â Â Â chu'<br>
<dd>78 Â Â Â 'oH<br>
<dd>78 Â Â Â ghu'<br>
<dd>77 Â Â Â -<br>
<dd>77 Â Â Â wa'DIch<br>
<dd>77 Â Â Â mu'mey<br>
<dd>75 Â Â Â tlhoS<br>
<dd>75 Â Â Â nuq/nuQ<br>
<dd>75 Â Â Â ghaH.<br>
<dd>74 Â Â Â reH<br>
<dd>74 Â Â Â naDev<br>
<dd>72 Â Â Â Qa'bar.<br>
<dd>70 Â Â Â Qu'/qu'<br>
<dd>70 Â Â Â nuH<br>
<dd>69 Â Â Â 'oy' - ha! Did I really hurt people that
much?<br>
<dd>69 Â Â Â Sa'.<br>
<dd>68 Â Â Â Dugh - the name of one of the ships.<br>
<dd>68 Â Â Â HIq - pretty hard drinking Klingons, considering
that the aliens who take up half the story hardly touch the stuff<br>
<dd>67 Â Â Â vay'<br>
<dd>67 Â Â Â loS<br>
<dd>67 Â Â Â muD<br>
<dd>67 Â Â Â bom<br>
<dd>67 Â Â Â qab/Qab - yep I shoehorned Qab in somewhere<br>
<dd>67 Â Â Â nISwI' - lots of those<br>
<dd>66 Â Â Â retlhDaq - wow, describing locations = more
common than I thought<br>
<dd>66 Â Â Â DeghwI'<br>
<dd>66 Â Â Â DIr<br>
<dd>66 Â Â Â ...<br>
<dd>64 Â Â Â jang<br>
<dd>64 Â Â Â jagh<br>
<dd>63 Â Â Â Hagh<br>
<dd>63 Â Â Â taj<br>
<dd>62 Â Â Â QeDpIn.<br>
<dd>62 Â Â Â qImyal,<br>
<dd>62 Â Â Â DeS<br>
<dd>62 Â Â Â lo'<br>
<dd>61 Â Â Â SaH<br>
<dd>61    «<br>
<dd>60 Â Â Â meHDaq<br>
<dd>60 Â Â Â vagh - these numbers might be from chapter
headings<br>
<dd>60 Â Â Â tugh<br>
<dd>59 Â Â Â veS - another ship name<br>
<dd>58 Â Â Â chay'<br>
<dd>58 Â Â Â 'op<br>
<dd>58 Â Â Â puS<br>
<dd>57 Â Â Â Qel.<br>
<dd>57    'Iw  - heh, it turned up later than Hagh<br>
<dd>56 Â Â Â motlh<br>
<dd>56 Â Â Â DIvI'<br>
<dd>55    «DaH<br>
<dd>54 Â Â Â ghogh<br>
<dd>54 Â Â Â nach<br>
<dd>54 Â Â Â may'<br>
<dd>54 Â Â Â DaHjaj<br>
<dd>54 Â Â Â pe'vIl<br>
<dd>54 Â Â Â Sov<br>
<dd>53 Â Â Â be'tlhar - another name<br>
<dd>53 Â Â Â ben<br>
<dd>53 Â Â Â Soj<br>
<dd>52 Â Â Â batlh<br>
<dd>52 Â Â Â pIj<br>
<dd>52 Â Â Â Daq/DaQ<br>
<dd>52 Â Â Â potlh<br>
<dd>52 Â Â Â jonwI'<br>
<dd>52 Â Â Â 'oH.<br>
<dd>52    Hegh  - this is such a Klingon list<br>
<dd>51 Â Â Â nID<br>
<dd>51 Â Â Â nuv<br>
<dd>51 Â Â Â QeDpIn<br>
<dd>51 Â Â Â ghaHvaD<br>
<dd>50 Â Â Â naQ<br>
<dd>50 Â Â Â HungpIn<br><br>
<dd>Most of the words are adverbs or conjunctions because they are the
only words that don't take affixes. Nouns and verbs so often have affixes
on them that they don't have high frequency in any one configuration.
Here's a chunk of  lower frequency, all the same verb, and of course not
including the versions starting with ma- vI- mu- orcetera.<br><br>
<dd>5 Â Â Â Â FAZ<br>
<dd>1 Â Â Â FAZBE'.<br>
<dd>1 Â Â Â FAZBE'PU'<br>
<dd>1 Â Â Â FAZCHUZ<br>
<dd>1 Â Â Â FAZDI'<br>
<dd>1 Â Â Â FAZLAH<br>
<dd>2 Â Â Â FAZMEH<br>
<dd>1 Â Â Â FAZPU'WI'PU'<br>
<dd>1 Â Â Â FAZPU'â?º<br>
<dd>1 Â Â Â FAZQA'LI'.<br>
<dd>1 Â Â Â FAZQAF.<br>
<dd>1 Â Â Â FAZQAFBE'WI',<br>
<dd>1 Â Â Â FAZQO'.<br>
<dd>1 Â Â Â FAZRUP<br>
<dd>1 Â Â Â FAZRUPDI'<br>
<dd>1 Â Â Â FAZRUPQU'CHOH<br>
<dd>1 Â Â Â FAZRUPWI'PU'.<br>
<dd>1 Â Â Â FAZTA'BOZ<br>
<dd>1 Â Â Â FAZTA'MO'<br>
<dd>1 Â Â Â FAZTAH<br>
<dd>1 Â Â Â FAZTAHVIS<br><br>
<dd>If someone wants more data I can work more on this.<br><br>
<dd>- Qov<br><br>
<br>
<dd>At 17:36 '?????' 1/4/2013, you wrote:<br>
<dl>
<dd>Kind of a rookie solution, but what you could do to check the
frequencies of ng/gh/tlh is to make a cooy of your document and then do a
Find & Replace thusly:<br><br>
<dd>tlh -> X<br>
<dd>gh -> Z<br>
<dd>ng -> F<br><br>
<dd>?or some other letters that aren't much used already (do a searrch
first so you can subtract pre-existing ones from the total.<br>
<dd>It's important to do gh before ng, because otherwise ngh will become
Fh, rather than nZ.<br><br>
<dd>If you'd like, you can also do something similar with alien
words/names like Mahoun that you don't want altering the results.<br>
<dd>________________________________________<br>
<dd>From: Robyn Stewart
[<a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>]<br>
<dd>Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 02:18<br>
<dd>To:
<a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a><br>
<dd>Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Fwd: RE: Klingon Scrabble<br><br>
<dd>I can, but I don't have a platform in which I can write a clever<br>
<dd>script, so this counts each character for itself not as part of
its<br>
<dd>Klingon letter. Here's what I get, with my comments.<br><br>
<dd>72543 Â Â Â - That's the space character, what
you'd expect for a 75k<br>
<dd>word novel.<br>
<dd>44671  a  - Our existing distribution gets that right. I
wonder if<br>
<dd>this is biased by character names. The main character is named
vajar.<br>
<dd>I'll do a version stripped of character and ship names once I have
a<br>
<dd>better system.<br>
<dd>40793 Â ' Â Â - I told you there weren't enough
qaghwI'mey in the<br>
<dd>game. It beats out all but one vowel!<br>
<dd>28488  h  - This combines the letter's presence in tlh
and gh, but<br>
<dd>excludes H.<br>
<dd>23699 Â o<br>
<dd>22652 Â e<br>
<dd>21140 Â I<br>
<dd>20469 Â H - I expected this to be more common in text than in
the<br>
<dd>dictionary, because it's in -taH and -Ha' and -laH and -moH and -meH
...<br>
<dd>20213  u  - last of the vowels<br>
<dd>19024  l  - biased because this includes l and tlh<br>
<dd>17380  t  - biased by t + tlh<br>
<dd>17291 Â j - interesting. One of the ship names has a j and so
does<br>
<dd>the main character's name. That might be a factor. But the main<br>
<dd>character also has a v and and r, so I don't think so.<br>
<dd>14365 Â . Â - Heh. Short sentences, eh?<br>
<dd>13634 Â g - A combination of gh + ng<br>
<dd>13627 Â m<br>
<dd>13557 Â D<br>
<dd>13455 Â n - includes n and ng<br>
<dd>11737 Â S<br>
<dd>11226 Â v<br>
<dd>9892 Â Â q<br>
<dd>9647 Â Â c<br>
<dd>9530 Â Â b<br>
<dd>9145 Â Â p<br>
<dd>7685 Â Â y<br>
<dd>7653 Â Â r<br>
<dd>6611 Â Â w<br>
<dd>5793 Â Â Q<br><br>
<dd>So it looks like yay ray way and Qay should be the high-scoring<br>
<dd>letters. Â Whoda thunk there were over three times as many Haymey as
Qaymey.<br><br>
<dd>As an indication of the cleanliness of the data, here's the
rest.<br><br>
<dd>5067 Â Â ,<br>
<dd>1702 Â Â M - two alien characters, one of whom is a main
character,<br>
<dd>have names starting in M. The names of alien ships and persons
is<br>
<dd>also the explanation for most of the non-Klingon alphabetic
characters below.<br>
<dd>1122 Â Â ?<br>
<dd>691 Â Â !<br>
<dd>374 Â Â s<br>
<dd>172 Â Â T<br>
<dd>171 Â Â -<br>
<dd>141 Â Â i<br>
<dd>132 Â Â O<br>
<dd>126 Â Â A<br>
<dd>126 Â Â @ - The pIqaD 'ay' titles are typed in xifan hol,
which<br>
<dd>renders the numbers as cartoon swear words.<br>
<dd>120 Â Â x<br>
<dd>94 Â Â Â U<br>
<dd>81 Â Â Â E<br>
<dd>76 Â Â Â F<br>
<dd>70 Â Â Â R<br>
<dd>69 Â Â Â &<br>
<dd>63 Â Â Â L<br>
<dd>62 Â Â Â :<br>
<dd>59 Â Â Â G<br>
<dd>57 Â Â Â #<br>
<dd>57 Â Â Â $<br>
<dd>57 Â Â Â %<br>
<dd>55 Â Â Â ^<br>
<dd>54 Â Â Â N<br>
<dd>51 Â Â Â )<br>
<dd>51 Â Â Â (<br>
<dd>47 Â Â Â *<br>
<dd>43 Â Â Â J<br>
<dd>41 Â Â Â P<br>
<dd>40 Â Â Â C<br>
<dd>39 Â Â Â K<br>
<dd>39 Â Â Â B<br>
<dd>35 Â Â Â k<br>
<dd>30 Â Â Â Y<br>
<dd>29 Â Â Â W<br>
<dd>27 Â Â Â V<br>
<dd>24 Â Â Â X<br>
<dd>18 Â Â Â d<br>
<dd>16 Â Â Â f<br><br>
<dd>At 22:52 '?????' 1/2/2013, you wrote:<br>
<dd>>Robyn,<br>
<dd>> Â Â Could you analyze your own writings? I bet that
would give a good<br>
<dd>>letter frequency representation.<br>
<dd>><br>
<dd>>Tim Stoffel<br>
<dd>><br>
<dd>>--<br>
<dd>><br>
<dd>>On Tue, 2013-01-01 at 14:09 -0800, Robyn Stewart wrote:<br>
<dd>> > That's an interesting question. Is the letter frequency
distribution<br>
<dd>> > of a large piece of text different than the frequency
distribution in<br>
<dd>> > a complete wordlist of that language? Â I think a list
compiled just<br>
<dd>> > from TKD affix and vocabulary lists might
competitively<br>
<dd>> > under-represent qaghwI', as it's in so many affixes.<br>
<dd>> ><br>
<dd>> > I found a shortage of qaghwI'mey during game play, but
the<br>
<dd>> > artificiality of the arbitrarily high scores for tlh and ng
didn't<br>
<dd>> > bother me much. It was just a luck thing.<br>
<dd>> ><br>
<dd>> > - Qov<br>
<dd>> ><br>
<dd>> > At 13:21 '?????' 1/1/2013, Felix Malmenbeck wrote:<br>
<dd>> > > At the risk of showcasing my ignorance with regards to
Scrabble:<br>
<dd>> > ><br>
<dd>> > > Does one actually need a corpus to decide character
values for<br>
<dd>> > > Scrabble? I imagine that a lexicon along with the
rules for<br>
<dd>> > > appending affixes would suffice, as the deciding
factor is what<br>
<dd>> > > words can be formed, rather than what words are most
commonly used<br>
<dd>> > > (or do rare/difficult words weigh more heavily in
that<br>
<dd>> > > calculation?).<br>
<dd>> > ><br>
<dd>> > ><br>
<dd>> > >
____________________________________________________________________<br>
<dd>> > > From: David Holt
[<a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>]<br>
<dd>> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 22:14<br>
<dd>> > > To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list<br>
<dd>> > > Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Fwd: RE: Klingon
Scrabble<br>
<dd>> > ><br>
<dd>> > > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 11:57 PM, Alan
Anderson<br>
<dd>> > >
<<a href="mailto:[email protected]";>[email protected]</a>
> wrote:<br>
<dd>> > > > > I got it from DloraH, who got it from
janSIy, who I believe<br>
<dd>> > > originated it.<br>
<dd>> > ><br>
<dd>> > > I didn't originate it, but I may have been the first
one to bring a<br>
<dd>> > > converted set to the qep'a'. Â I got the frequencies
and values off<br>
<dd>> > > this very list and I no longer remember who did the
calculations or<br>
<dd>> > > came up with the values. Â It was probably 15 years
ago. Â The game is<br>
<dd>> > > fun, but the scores are somewhat artificial since the
point values<br>
<dd>> > > were based on rarity of English letters and so it's
weird to have<br>
<dd>> > > common letters like <tlh> be worth so many
points. Â I think any new<br>
<dd>> > > calculations should be based on Qov's <nuq bop
bom>, since that is a<br>
<dd>> > > large piece of original tlhIngan Hol writing.<br>
<dd>> > ><br>
<dd>> > > janSIy<br>
<dd>> > > _______________________________________________<br>
<dd>> > > Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br>
<dd>> > >
<a href="mailto:[email protected]";>
[email protected]</a><br>
<dd>> > >
<a href="http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol"; eudora="autourl">
http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a><br>
<dd>> > _______________________________________________<br>
<dd>> > Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br>
<dd>> >
<a href="mailto:[email protected]";>
[email protected]</a><br>
<dd>> >
<a href="http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol"; eudora="autourl">
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