tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Feb 04 11:59:37 2011
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RE: tato'eba' yImuv 'ej mu'tlheghmey tImugh!
Andre:
>>>> chay'na Sep qunmIng vengvo' SavanneS,
Until they eventually realize that these are Terran names, beginners (and others) will waste time trying to analyze the very Klingon-looking *{chay'na}: {chay'} "how?" + {na'} "be salty/brackish" or {na'} "be sure/definite/positive/certain (slang)" or even a typo for {-na'} "definite, true, etc."
*{qunmIng} looks like it might be {qun} "history" or {qun} "scold" + *{mIng} a typo for {mIn} "eye"(??).
For this reason I usually leave proper names in all caps as a signal that they're not tlhIngan Hol words. E.g.
CHINA Sep KUNMING veng
But *if* you like Klingonized Terran country names, Qov has a convenient list of them on her Klingon blog: http://bologh.blogspot.com/2004_02_15_bologh_archive.html#107706590568345242
... which does have the advantage of being a shared list so we don't have to argue about every single transliteration every single time. And {chay'na'} (with a final apostrophe) is on her list.
lay'tel SIvten:
>>> I think it's better not to translate place (or other) names. Instead
>>> of {chay'na}, use {China}, for example, since the spelling is fairly
>>> consistent across natlangs, but the pronunciation varies radically.
ghunchu'wI':
>> 'a <chan'a'> vIlo' vIneH. mu'qIDmey vIparHa'.
Andre:
> But of course things like {chay'na} are completely arbitrary... I could've
> written {chayna} or {chayna'} or of course something like {junggho}.
> In the Klingon Wikipedia (now on Wikia) we left foreign names as they were
> but italicized them. That's not an option for Tatoeba, though. Marking
> them like "China"-vo' "Japan"-Daq jIlengpu' is ugly in such cases too.
>
> Do you think it's better to leave them just like they are and write, e.g.
> China-vo' Japan-Daq jIlengpu' (or maybe without the hyphens?)? If there's
> something like consensus about this, I'd be willing to change the sentences
> with proper names to a new format.
But whatever method you prefer WRT proper names, you would still need to say:
CHINA Sepvo' KUNMING vengvo' SavanneS
We know that the locative suffixes {-Daq} - and probably {-vo'} - need to be added to each noun/name of a hierarchical location (e.g. Chicago, Illinois, USA, Earth). There's an example on the BoP Poster:
tlhIngan juHqo'Daq tlhIng yoSDaq 'oH toQDuj chenmoHlu'meH Daq wa'DIch'e'
1st Construction Site: The Kling District, Klingon Home World. (KBoP)
If however the nouns are in apposition to each another (e.g. their homeworld, Kronos) the suffix need only be added to the last in the series:
juHqo' Qo'noSvo' loghDaq lengtaHvIS tlhInganpu'
During the (aggressive) expansion of the Klingon people from their
homeworld of Kronos into space... (SP1)
--
VoraghÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂÂ
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons