tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Feb 04 11:56:48 2011

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Re: tato'eba' yImuv 'ej mu'tlheghmey tImugh!

lojmIt tI'wI' nuv ([email protected]) 

Perhaps, since the choice of sentence to translate is arbitrary, on such a site, we could easily decide that a sentence containing a place name that doesn't exist for the fictional race that the language is written for might not be an appropriate sentence to translate at all. As ghunchu'wI' has recently proven, there are many things you CAN say in Klingon that don't require this kind of transliteration. Why not translate THAT kind of stuff instead of gravitating toward using words that don't exist in the Klingon vocabulary?

Remember that when we say {tlhIngan Hol}, it doesn't mean "The Klingon Language". It means "A Klingon's Language". A Klingon would not be talking about China. If you are translating things a Klingon would not say, you aren't really translating into tlhIngan Hol.

pItlh.
lojmIt tI'wI' nuv



On Feb 4, 2011, at 1:49 PM, André Müller wrote:

> I understand your point of course. I see Klingon as a language with a very
> rigid syllable structure (CV(C)(C)), which makes it difficult to import new
> words just as is. We also know Klingons use a different writing system
> (however it might work), so in my eyes Klingon is a bit similar to languages
> like Thai or Korean maybe.
> But of course things like {chay'na} are completely arbitrary... I could've
> written {chayna} or {chayna'} or of course something like {junggho}.
> In the Klingon Wikipedia (now on Wikia) we left foreign names as they were
> but italicized them. That's not an option for Tatoeba, though. Marking them
> like "China"-vo' "Japan"-Daq jIlengpu' is ugly in such cases too.
> 
> Do you think it's better to leave them just like they are and write, e.g.
> China-vo' Japan-Daq jIlengpu' (or maybe without the hyphens?)? If there's
> something like consensus about this, I'd be willing to change the sentences
> with proper names to a new format.
> 
> Still I hope I won't stay the only contributor.
> - André
> 
> 2011/2/4 MorphemeAddict <[email protected]>
> 
>> I think it's better not to translate place (or other) names. Instead of
>> {chay'na}, use {China}, for example, since the spelling is fairly
>> consistent
>> across natlangs, but the pronunciation varies radically.
>> lay'tel SIvten
>> 
>> On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 5:27 AM, André Müller <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello fellow Klingonists,
>>> There's a website out there called Tatoeba (Japanese for "for example"),
>>> which collects example sentences in any language which then are
>> translated
>>> by visitors of the site into any other language. You might first think:
>>> "What is this crap used for?!", so read its purposes on the website
>> itself.
>>> I mainly contribute for the joy of translating random phrases. Some time
>>> ago
>>> I requested the Klingon language to be added and I've been translating
>>> about
>>> over 600 sentences since.
>>> Here's the link: http://tatoeba.org
>>> 
>>> The site seems to be frequented by Esperantists, so why not try to make
>> it
>>> a
>>> source of (non-canon) example sentences for Klingon, too? Of course, you
>>> can
>>> also add canon-sentences with their original English translation or add
>>> translations in any other language you know (some here speak German,
>> Dutch
>>> and Swedish, I know).
>>> 
>>> Some notes (so we might stay consistent): I've never dared to translate
>>> country names (except for "United Kingdom", for which we have a jocular,
>>> yet
>>> canon source), but I transcribed proper names of people and cities (Nancy
>>> 
>>> nenSIy; Paris > perIS, as I assume Klingons would know Terran place names
>>> through DIvI' Hol). I used ! and ? at the end of imperative and
>>> interrogative sentences and «...» as/for quotes. Oh, and always translate
>>> directly from the source sentences. Don't translate from Japanese if you
>>> only understand it's English translation. ;)
>>> 
>>> I think, all translations are by me, so far. I believe my Klingon is
>> quite
>>> grammatically correct (I hope this doesn't sound arrogant), although
>> you've
>>> probably never seen me post anything in Klingon here. But please indicate
>>> corrections or comments below the sentences.
>>> 
>>> I'd be happy to see more Klingon sentences added by you over time! :)
>>> 
>>> chay'na Sep qunmIng vengvo' SavanneS,
>>> - André
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
>

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