tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Aug 18 17:40:01 2009

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Re: Query on -choHmoHwI'

Doq (doq@embarqmail.com)



My guess from the glosses is that you'd probably use {Say'moH} if you  
are the person doing the cleaning or describing the active process,  
but if you are having your shoes cleaned, like having your shirts  
pressed, then perhaps {lamHa'moH} would be more common.

Either that, or cleaning shoes implies chunks of mud, while the other  
kinds of cleaning implies less of a change of texture than color and  
smell.

This kind of thing is arbitrary in most languages, and we'd probably  
need to talk to a Klingon to figure out why they use one in one  
setting and something different in another setting.

Doq

On Aug 17, 2009, at 9:49 AM, Steven Boozer wrote:

> Mark J. Reed:
>>> I see you're still  using {lamHa'}.  So why not {Say'}?
> qe'San:
>> Before my first email I was personally using {Say'} but as I started
>> thinking about what I wanted to ask I realised that we had canon  
>> use of
>> {lamHa'} for "clean" in the sense of removing dirt
>>
>> *TKD p170: Where can I get my shoes cleaned? - nuqDaq waqwIj
>> vIlamHa'choHmoH
>>
>> I realise that doesn't mean it's right for teeth but as there  
>> appears to me
>> to be a predisposition against Klingons cleaning for the sake of  
>> it. The aim
>> of what I am doing when cleening my teeth is to remove as much dirt  
>> as I can
>> and I believe that follows the same idea regarding cleaning shoes.
>>
>> So looking at it like that I thought I might say:
>>  Say' Ho'Du'wIj  - for "my teeth are clean."
>> but
>>  Ho'Du'wIj vIlamHa'choHmoH -  for "I clean my teeth."
>>
>> I tried to think about what's the difference between be clean and  
>> be undirty...
>> So applying that to undirty or clean I thought if my intention is  
>> to remove
>> dirt then {lamHa'} was appropriate and if commenting on the  
>> resultant level
>> of cleanliness then {Say'} was appropriate.
>
>
> Here's what we have in canon:
>
> {lam}  dirt (n.)
>
> {lam}  be dirty (v.)
>
> {lamHa'choHmoH}  get something cleaned (v.)
>
> - nuqDaq waqwIj vIlamHa'choHmoH
>   Where can I get my shoes cleaned? TKD
>
> {Say'}  be clean (v.)
>
> {Say'moH}  wash (v.)
>
> - DaH jIbwIj vISay'nISmoH
>   I must wash my hair now. PK
>
> - yoHbogh matlhbogh je SuvwI' Say'moHchu' may' 'Iw
>   The blood of battle washes clean the warrior brave and true.  
> (Anthem)
>
> {Say'qu'moH}  sterilize (v.)
>
>
> FWIW note that Okrand glossed {Say'moH} as "wash" and not "clean"  
> which, together with the two example sentences, implies (to me at  
> least) the use of water or some other liquid (e.g. blood).   
> {lamHa'choHmoH} would thus mean to "de-dirt(y)" -- e.g. scraping the  
> mud off your shoes, wiping the blood from your blade, cleaning your  
> gun, etc.
>
> Perhaps {Say'moH} refers to a particular method of cleaning (e.g.  
> with liquid) or implies a greater level of cleanliness.  Note that  
> {Say'qu'moH} "sterilize" is an even greater level of clean.
>
>> To that end regarding hygienist and toothbrush discussed earlier,  
>> maybe
>> {Say'choHmoHwI'} would  describe a Hygienist and lamHa'choHmoHwI' a
>> toothbrush (or similar impliment).
>
> Considering that a dental hygienist scrapes the plaque off your  
> teeth, {lamHa'choHmoH} seems appropriate.
>
>
> --
> Voragh
> Canon Master of the Klingons
>







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