tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Aug 18 17:40:01 2009
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Re: Query on -choHmoHwI'
My guess from the glosses is that you'd probably use {Say'moH} if you
are the person doing the cleaning or describing the active process,
but if you are having your shoes cleaned, like having your shirts
pressed, then perhaps {lamHa'moH} would be more common.
Either that, or cleaning shoes implies chunks of mud, while the other
kinds of cleaning implies less of a change of texture than color and
smell.
This kind of thing is arbitrary in most languages, and we'd probably
need to talk to a Klingon to figure out why they use one in one
setting and something different in another setting.
Doq
On Aug 17, 2009, at 9:49 AM, Steven Boozer wrote:
> Mark J. Reed:
>>> I see you're still using {lamHa'}. So why not {Say'}?
> qe'San:
>> Before my first email I was personally using {Say'} but as I started
>> thinking about what I wanted to ask I realised that we had canon
>> use of
>> {lamHa'} for "clean" in the sense of removing dirt
>>
>> *TKD p170: Where can I get my shoes cleaned? - nuqDaq waqwIj
>> vIlamHa'choHmoH
>>
>> I realise that doesn't mean it's right for teeth but as there
>> appears to me
>> to be a predisposition against Klingons cleaning for the sake of
>> it. The aim
>> of what I am doing when cleening my teeth is to remove as much dirt
>> as I can
>> and I believe that follows the same idea regarding cleaning shoes.
>>
>> So looking at it like that I thought I might say:
>> Say' Ho'Du'wIj - for "my teeth are clean."
>> but
>> Ho'Du'wIj vIlamHa'choHmoH - for "I clean my teeth."
>>
>> I tried to think about what's the difference between be clean and
>> be undirty...
>> So applying that to undirty or clean I thought if my intention is
>> to remove
>> dirt then {lamHa'} was appropriate and if commenting on the
>> resultant level
>> of cleanliness then {Say'} was appropriate.
>
>
> Here's what we have in canon:
>
> {lam} dirt (n.)
>
> {lam} be dirty (v.)
>
> {lamHa'choHmoH} get something cleaned (v.)
>
> - nuqDaq waqwIj vIlamHa'choHmoH
> Where can I get my shoes cleaned? TKD
>
> {Say'} be clean (v.)
>
> {Say'moH} wash (v.)
>
> - DaH jIbwIj vISay'nISmoH
> I must wash my hair now. PK
>
> - yoHbogh matlhbogh je SuvwI' Say'moHchu' may' 'Iw
> The blood of battle washes clean the warrior brave and true.
> (Anthem)
>
> {Say'qu'moH} sterilize (v.)
>
>
> FWIW note that Okrand glossed {Say'moH} as "wash" and not "clean"
> which, together with the two example sentences, implies (to me at
> least) the use of water or some other liquid (e.g. blood).
> {lamHa'choHmoH} would thus mean to "de-dirt(y)" -- e.g. scraping the
> mud off your shoes, wiping the blood from your blade, cleaning your
> gun, etc.
>
> Perhaps {Say'moH} refers to a particular method of cleaning (e.g.
> with liquid) or implies a greater level of cleanliness. Note that
> {Say'qu'moH} "sterilize" is an even greater level of clean.
>
>> To that end regarding hygienist and toothbrush discussed earlier,
>> maybe
>> {Say'choHmoHwI'} would describe a Hygienist and lamHa'choHmoHwI' a
>> toothbrush (or similar impliment).
>
> Considering that a dental hygienist scrapes the plaque off your
> teeth, {lamHa'choHmoH} seems appropriate.
>
>
> --
> Voragh
> Canon Master of the Klingons
>