tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue May 13 19:52:00 2008
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Re: ngoy'
Thanks to all for the feedback. I appreciate both the specific
discussions of ngoy' as well as the broader aspects regarding language raised.
Doq:
> The problem I see here is that you seem to feel that because English
> has a noun form for "responsibility", then Klingon needs to have one,
> too. Otherwise, you'll have trouble swapping English words for Klingon
> words and then rearranging them for Klingon grammar in order to
> translate from English to Klingon.
and later
> I'm exaggerating, of course, but the truth is, by my quick count,
> Klingon has 1,043 verbs and 1,348 nouns. In English, I doubt the ratio
> is nearly as close. Your average Klingon speaker has probably
> memorized more verbs than nouns. Meanwhile, whenever people make up
> their list of words they want from Maltz, they almost always want
> mostly nouns. This is especially true, since the people who ask for
> the most words are usually people who have used the language less than
> most of the other people on this list.
As I was considering a response to ghunchu'wI' for an example of how
I would use responsibility, I realized that most expressions could be
restated using an active verb form. While shifting the meaning
slightly, these more active and possessive uses of responsibility do
seem more Klingon (even to my less experienced ears). I think Doq's
point drove this home that even if a suitable translation exists, the
abstract (or even more so, passive) usage would likely be used much
less often in Klingon than English. The parallel drawn with
questions versus commands from Doq and Voragh further make the point
of the cultural difference and need to 'let go' of my native biases.
Doq:
>Consider how you would translate "Which helmet do you want?" into
>Klingon. You won't find a Klingon word for "which". There isn't one.
>You can't use {nuq}. It doesn't work that way.
>
>You can say {mIv yIwIv!}
Voragh:
>>Very Klingon. Okrand has also translated "which" or "what" with a relative
>>clause, first in the old msn.onstage.startrek.expert.okrand newsgroup:
and later
>> vay' DaneHbogh yIchargh
>> Conquer what you desire. TKW
>>
>> nuH DaneHbogh yIngu'!
>> Which weapon do you want?
>> ("Identify the weapon that you want!") KGT
While these points were even more valuable, I do appreciate the
efforts taken to share specific variations that could be of use, both
directly to ngoy' such as ngoy'taHghach and ngoy'nISghach, as well as
alternatives like gheS and cho'. The discussion of the rituals in
officer change-overs on a vessel and other duties reinforces my
original view that responsibility is a key concept to Klingons, and I
appreciate the assistance in helping me communicate this more clearly
and appropriately.
Thank you all again,
Rich