tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue May 13 09:03:51 2008
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Re: ngoy'
Rich:
>>I am curious if anyone has come across a translation for the concept
>>of responsibility.
>>I have been in a dialogue on the Klingon Imperial Forum regarding
>>this, and appreciate the assistance I have received there. I was
>>pointed to the KLI as the linguistic experts, and had been reviewing
>>the archives. I have subsequently joined and have enjoyed the
>>exchanges thus far, and felt it was worth posing the question for the
>>group on whether anyone could point to more canonical information
>>regarding responsibility.
>>
>>In TKD, "responsible" and "to be responsible" are translated as
>>ngoy'. As noted in TKD, the noun and verb form of words are often
>>identical (i.e. ta' and yoD). While that is seen in the case with
>>responsible and to be responsible, I am not sure if it would extend
>>to the more abstract concept of responsibility. While responsibility
>>has multiple meanings, I am interested in the specific aspect of the
>>word dealing with having accountability for something, which is tied
>>to definitions of obligation or duty (Qu' or in slang, ghIgh)
>>
>>This aspect of responsibility clearly applies to ngoy' as seen in the
>>quote from TKW:
>>
>> vangDI' tlhIngan SuvwI' ngoy' qorDu'Daj;
>> vanDI' qorDu'Daj ngoy' tlhIngan SuvwI'.
"The family of a Klingon warrior is responsible for his actions,
and he is responsible for theirs." (TKW)
>>I would think this may have come up in some of the other translation
>>efforts (or more directly in the canon) given the importance of the
>>concept in Klingon, but I have not been able to find it. While
>>variations like ngoy'wI' (one who is responsible), as well as ngoy'
>>or Qu', are useful, I was hoping someone could help further on
>>this. One recommendation offered so far was ngoy'taHghach.
If you absolutely, positively need an abstract noun, then *{ngaoy'taHghach}
will do and would probably be understood (at least by most Klingonists).
Doq:
>You don't need a noun for {ngoy'} to say most of the things you'd say
>with the English noun "responsibility". Just use the verb creatively.
>
>Meanwhile, if you want to impart a flavor to the word that the English
>word "responsibility" doesn't specify, you can use {-ghach} with some
>verb suffix preceding it:
>
> ngoy'taHghach - "ongoing responsibility"
> ngoy'ta'ghach - "responsibility that continues or continued
> until a goal is or was reached"
> ngoy'qangghach - "willingness to be responsible"
> ngoy'nISghach - "the necessity of responsibility"
> ngoy'Ha'ghach - "irresponsibility"
> ngoy'pu'ghach - "former responsibility"
> ngoy'qa'ghach - "repeated responsiblity"
> ngoy'rupghach - "readiness to be responsible"
> ngoy'vIpghach - "fear of responsibility"
Maybe even *{ngoy'qu'ghach} "an obsessive or overly developed sense of
responsibility"?
Rich:
> > I have made this slip before, and hopefully this time it will
> > stick. As you note, ngoy' is a verb and can be used as a modifier
> > like an adjective. Your clarification on the notation in TKD helps
> > make the point that ngoy' was not necessarily considered to be a noun.
> >
> > While ngoy' does fit the concept I am thinking of, I am not sure how
> > one would reference the noun form of responsibility. I suspect it
> > may not be the same term and may be a variation of ngoy' or a
> > different term entirely (more along the lines of veS and Qoj than ta'
> > or yoD that I referenced in my previous note).
ghunchu'wI':
> >> How would one reference it in English? The most common phrasing I
> >> can think of would be "have responsibility", which is essentially the
> >> same as the simple verb {ngoy'} "be responsible". Perhaps "take
> >> responsibility", which I think comes across well as {ngoy'choH}
> >> "become responsible".
There's another relevant verb {gheS} "assume duties of, take on
responsibilities":
KGT 183-84: A ritual of a less majestic sort occurs on a Klingon vessel
when a new set of officers takes over and a mission is about to begin. With
the bridge crew assembled but the captain not yet present, the first
officer states his or her name and then says {DaH yaS wa'DIch vIgheS} ("I
now take my place as first officer" or, literally, "Now I assume the
responsibilities of first officer"). The first officer then requests the
ship's {may' ta} ("record of battle"), which is presented by a crew member.
The first officer reviews it. Soon the captain enters. The first officer
says, {beq may' ta vIlajpu'} ("I have accepted the crew's record of
battle"), pledges the crew's lives to the captain, and concludes by saying,
{juDev 'ej Dujvam ra'wI' DagheS'e' vItlhob} ("I ask you to lead us as
commander of this ship" or, literally, "I request that you lead us and that
you assume the duties of commander of this ship"). The captain replies,
{ghopDu'wIjDaq yInmeyraj vIlaj} ("I accept your lives into my hands") and
then reverts to the ancient language form {no' Hol} and says, {Delaq Do'},
meaning something like {Take your stations}, a phrase never heard in any
other context.
Other useful verbs to keep in mind when discussing taking on responsibility
are {Son} "relieve", {Sugh} "install (in office)", {cho'} "succeed (to
authority)", {lu} "fall from power" and maybe {Da} "behave as, act in the
manner of" and {vang} "act, take action".
Doq:
>Consider how you would translate "Which helmet do you want?" into
>Klingon. You won't find a Klingon word for "which". There isn't one.
>You can't use {nuq}. It doesn't work that way.
>
>You can say {mIv yIwIv!}
Very Klingon. Okrand has also translated "which" or "what" with a relative
clause, first in the old msn.onstage.startrek.expert.okrand newsgroup:
So what about the "what" (or "which") of your original question ("What/
which is your favorite month?")? When asking someone a question of this
type, you are really asking him or her to make a choice. So just be a
Klingon and order them to do so: "Identify the month that you very much
prefer!" {jar DamaSqu'bogh yIngu'} [December 12, 1996]
and again in TKW and KGT:
vay' DaneHbogh yIchargh
Conquer what you desire. TKW
nuH DaneHbogh yIngu'!
Which weapon do you want?
("Identify the weapon that you want!") KGT
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons