tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Dec 04 04:15:01 2007

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Re: Basic grammar question

David Trimboli (david@trimboli.name) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']



Qang qu'wI' wrote:

> I would be interested if you could cite specifically, but just as a matter
> of interest. I'm not proposing that anything other than {maleng qorDu'wIj
> jIH je} is the correct Klingon.

It's hard, if not impossible, to prove a negative. Nowhere in the canon 
is there any example of conjoining a noun and a pronoun, but neither is 
there any situation in the canon where doing so would seem to be 
appropriate. My knowledge of the canon is, however, rusty; if anyone can 
cite an example of a noun-pronoun conjunction, or of anything that goes 
out of its way to avoid one, please post it.

One potential rule against conjoining nouns and pronouns is on TKD p. 
52: "Pronouns may be used as nouns, but only for emphasis or added 
clarity. They are not required." Using the first person pronoun in {jIH 
qorDu'wIj je} isn't done for emphasis or added clarity. There is thus no 
provision in the stated rules for conjoining nouns and pronouns.

On the other hand, Such an interpretation would also invalidate 
sentences like {ghaHvo' yIt nuch} "The coward walked away from him." And 
pronouns are explicitly allowed to get {-vaD} on TKD p. 180.

Don't forget the warning of TKD Section 2:

    It is not possible, in a brief guide such as this, to describe the
    grammar of Klingon completely. What follows is only a sketch or
    outline of Klingon grammar. Although a good many of the fine points
    are not covered, the sketch will allow the student of Klingon to
    figure out what a Klingon is saying and to respond in an
    intelligible, though somewhat brutish manner. Most Klingons will
    never know the difference.

I believe that the possibility of a third person plural beyond {maH} was 
simply never considered and never examined. And since the canon has 
never needed it, we don't have any information one way or the other. It 
is, however, a very common device in personal discussions, something 
that the canon has very little of.

Now, before you go taking this as evidence for your theoretical *{maleng 
qorDu'wIj jIH je}, answer this: according to your model, how would you 
translate "The captain gave me and the other officers medals"? Using our 
customary methods, I can think of two distinct ways (not counting 
variations with the prefix trick).

SuStel
Stardate 7919.8





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