tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Mar 07 12:32:47 2004

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Re: Tao Te Ching Chp. 1

Agnieszka Solska ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

Hogh law' ret lab ghunchu'wI':

>ja' 'ISqu':
>>rap cha'vam Hal 'ach jaS luponglu'.
>>luDellu'meH jatlhlu': [F]
>>The source of these two is the same yet they are differently named.
>>They are called the mystery,
>>
>>[F] {luDellu'meH jatlhlu'}. I could have used {bIHvaD pegh ponglu'} here
>>but:
>>(a) the verb {pong} was used in the previous line
>>    and to repeat it would be clumsy.
>
>Klingon {per} could work if you want an alternative to {pong}.
>
>>(b) two different words are used in the Chinese text:
>>    "ming" in the previous line and "wei" in this line
>>(c) The phrase " ... is called" ("... wei") appears
>>    quite a few times in the book and I have always
>>    rendered it as {... Dellu'meH jatlhlu'}:
>
>What does "wei" mean, and how does it differ from "ming"?  Would {per}
>"label" fit?  In case it does...

Although the most typical translation would be

"... is called ...",

the possible meanings of "wei" include:

... is known as ...
... means ...
... implies
... can be described as ...
... calls

As a noun, it can also mean "a saying"


Unlike "ming", which does mean a name (in the case of people, a given name 
as opposed to a family name, which is "xing"), "wei" tends to be used in 
contexts where something is merely described, rather than given a permanent 
label. That's why I don't think it would be appropriate to use the

   X-vaD Y perlu'/ponglu'

formula in any of the lines listed below. Nor do I (now) think it would be 
appropriate to use it in the above quoted line from chapter 1.

>>Chp 27:
>>    mIwvamvaD ponglu': peghbogh mIw bochqu'.
>>    This is called the covert practice that shines.
>
>...mIwvamvaD <peghbogh mIw bochqu'> perlu'
>
>[but I'd put it the other way around: <bochqu'bogh mIw pegh>]
>
>>Chp 36:
>>    peghvam DelmeH jatlhlu': <Hurghbogh peghHom bochqu'>.
>>    This is called the little dark secret that shines.
>
>...mIwvamvaD <Hurghbogh peghHom bochqu'> perlu'
>
>[and again: <bochqu'bogh peghHom Hurgh>]
>
>>Chp 69:
>>    to'vam DelmeH jatlhlu':/
>>           tlhetlhbe'lu'taHvIS tlhetlhlu'.
>>   This is called:/
>>         Moving forward without moving forward.
>
>...but I think this one works better with {jatlh} because you translated
>the phrase as a complete sentence.

'ISqu'

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