tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Nov 13 18:32:40 2002
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KLBC the effects of -Ha' thanks and explaning my name.
Thanks Quvar and all for the helpful responses
It would seem that -Ha' is a very complex and powerful suffix able to
transform a simple verb into a wide variety of negative forms. I must spend
much more time examining this subject.
Yes my human name is French.
As for my tlhingan name it was created before I had even a minimal grasp of
tlhIngan Hol which is why you see verb suffixes attached to nouns.
qelghetlh- just a good tlhIngan sounding snarl
ves joHneS'a' was supposed to be war god or god of war working from the Mars
portion of my last name. I know now it is grammatically incorrect but I've
used it too long to worry about changeing it now.
I sometimes explain that my name is derived from the obscure, seldom used,
and nearly incomprehensable Okudian dialect of tlhIngan Hol in which words
and suffixes are assembled in any way that looks good regardless of whether
or not it says anything
----- Original Message -----
From: "Quvar valer" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: KLBC the effects of -Ha'
> ghItlh "Sebastian DuMars" <[email protected]>:
> > The way I understand it -Ha' changes the verb to its opposite.
> Not only the opposite. It can mean "undo", "mis-, dis-, un-, de-",
"wrongly".
> Of course in many cases it's just the opposite, like in {par/parHa'}, but
sometimes there isn't even an appropriate english
> translation.
>
> Did you read TKD 4.3 already?
> Here's some highlights:
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> {-Ha'} "undo"
> This negative suffix implies not merely that something is not done (as
does {-be'}), but that there is a change of state:
> something that was previously done is now undone. For convenience, it will
here be translated as "undo," but it is closer
> to the English prefixes "mis-, de-, dis-" (as in "misunderstand,
demystify, disentangle"). It is also used if something is done
> wrongly. Unlike {-be'}, {-Ha'} can be used in imperatives.
>
> {chenHa'moHlaH} "it can destroy them"
> This verb actually means something like it can cause them to undo their
form.
>
> {Do'Ha'} "it is unfortunate"
> The use of {-Ha'} in this sentence suggests a turn of luck from good to
bad.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> >jatlh=speak jatlhHa'=misspeak?
> Yes. TKD 4.3 further:
> <<<<<<<<
> {bIjatlhHa'chugh} "if you say the wrong thing"
> This shows how {-Ha'} can be used in the sense of "wrongly." The word
might be translated as "if you misspeak." Using
> {-be'} (that is, {bIjatlhbe'chugh}) would mean "if you don't speak."
> >>>>>>>
>
> >Such=visit SuchHa'=shun/avoid contact?
> I don't know that.
>
> >yIn=live yInHa'= is this another way to say 'die'
> >or would 'unliving' be better. Could this be used to express
> >the state of being of a vampire for example.
> No, they are "un-dead", not "un-living" :-)
> Perhabs this can be used for someone who is still alive, but only because
he's attached to a life-supporting machine. Still
> living, but not really alive...
>
> >nep=lie nepHa'= another expression for 'be true' or 'to
tell the truth"
> I don't think so, because there is a word for "tell the truth": {vIt}
> I'm not sure, but I'd say that here, the "wrongly"-meaning can also be
applied, describing a bad liar.
>
> >ghoj=learn ghojHa'=forget?
> "mis-learn", like with jatlhHa', this means "learn wrongly".
>
> {ghojmoH} - "teach"
> {ghojHa'moH} - "un-teach"
> If I tell you crap, I {ghojHa'moH}you.
> Maybe if I disturb you while doing your homework, I {ghojHa'moH}you.
>
> >ghaj=have ghajHa'=lose?
> Here, we also have a word for "lose, misplace" {chIl}:
> {tlhonchaj chIljaj}
> "may they lose their nostrils"
>
> I think {ghajHa'} is a stronger version of {ghajbe'}.
> - De' Daghaj'a'?
> - ghobe', De' vIghajbe'
> - Do you have the information?
> - No, I don't. (I never do, and you know that)
>
> - De' Daghaj'a'?
> - ghobe' jay', De' vIghajHa'!
> - Do you have the information?
> - No, dammit, I don't. (I had it, but I don't any more)
>
> Here you could say that it means "lose". But that's not what is being
said.
> The person did not lose it, he just doesn't have it any more. (it could be
stolen, vaporised, escaped,...)
>
> >legh=see leghHa'=??????
> This could mean, "not see perfectly". Maybe when you see something, you
believe it's a man, but in fact, it's a woman.
> The you really did "mis-see".
>
> >ghItlh=write ghItlhHa'=erase? or deface?
> Also "wrongly": making a typo is for me {ghItlhHa'}
>
> I am not sure about all these words, so I'm looking forward to comments
from people who like giving comments ;-)
>
> Here are some other canon examples for the Rover {-Ha'}:
> {bachHa'} "mis-shoot", slang for "err, make a mistake"
> {belHa'}"be displeased"
> used in math:
> {boq} for addition, {boqHa'} for subtraction
> {buSHa'}"ignore"
> {Do'Ha'} "be unfortunate"
> {ghomHa'} "scatter, disperse"
> {jejHa'}"be dull, blunt (blades)"
> {jotHa'}"be uneasy"
> {lay'Ha'} "break one's word"
> {lItHa'}"get off (of s.th.) (command to pet)."
> {lobHa'} disobey
> And many more, I have no time now to find them all. I hope that least
these can explain alttle.
>
> >Sebastian DuMars
> Sounds french...
>
> >qelgetlh veS joHneS'a'
> If that's a name, it doesn't have to make sense.
> Tell me if it should :-)
>
> Quvar
> Beginners' Grammarian
> ghojwI'pu'wI' vISaH
>
>
>