tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Aug 29 15:32:11 2002
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Re: two different types of object
Quvar asks:
>mu'tlheghvam vImughnIS:
>"You (pl.) honor me and my family"
You're right: It's tricky. I could find no examples in canon of {A B je}
where a pronoun is one of the elements so I could check to see which verb
prefix is used to refer to them both. Can anyone else think of one?
>1. qorDu'wIj jIH je tuquvmoH
>only jIH is object
>"you honor me; and my family"
If this is possible, shouldn't you reverse the nouns if the second noun is
an addition?
jIH (qorDu'wIj je) tuquvmoH
you honor me (and my house)
>2. qorDu'wIj jIH je boquvmoH
>only qorDu' is object, jIH could also be the object, but only if it were a
>noun.
>"you honor <my family and I>"
>"you honor my family and the viewing screen"
The second possibility is nonsense and can be eliminated; no Klingon in
their right mind would hear this as "viewing screen" - unless they were
making an awful pun, of course. <g>
Besides, pronouns *are* nouns. In HolQeD 4.2:3 we read that Okrand
communicated privately with members of the KSRP (Klingon Shakespeare
Restoration Project) that pronouns (being a subset of nouns) could indeed
be used with stative verbs in comparisions: {SoH po' law' jIH po' puS} is
correct.
>A solution could be two sentences:
>qorDu'wIj boquvmoH 'ej jIH tuquvmoH.
>"you honor my family and you honor me."
> (but this looks so long)
Long to our eyes perhaps; maybe not to a Klingon's. This one is quite
possible, although you could omit {jIH} since it's implied in {tu-}. We've
seen Okrand do it this way:
pInaDqu' tuqlIj wInaDqu' je
Glory to you and your house.
("We praise you highly; we also praise your house highly") KGT
So, using this as a model:
qorDu'wIj boquvmoH, tuquvmoH je.
"you honor my family; you also honor me"
DloraH suggests:
> > 1. qorDu'wIj jIH je tuquvmoH
> > 2. qorDu'wIj jIH je boquvmoH
>
>How about che- ?
"you (pl.) [do something to] us"
This would be my first choice. It's certainly the
simplest. Unfortunately, we've learned that Okrand doesn't always go for
the simplest solution.
Another question is: What is the order of pronouns in Klingon? Different
languages don't always follow the same order. Is it properly {qorDu'wIj
jIH je} "my family and I/me" (i.e. 3rd person, 2nd person, 1st person - as
in English) or {jIH qorDu'wIj je} "I/me and my family" (i.e. 1st person,
2nd person, 3rd person), or something else entirely?
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons