Re: two different types of object

[Quvar valer <levinius@gmx.de>]

Am 29.08.2002 22:32:37, schrieb Steven Boozer <sboozer@midway.uchicago.edu>:
>If this is possible, shouldn't you reverse the nouns if the second noun is 
>an addition?
>
>   jIH (qorDu'wIj je) tuquvmoH
>   you honor me (and my house)
What's the difference? Does it matter, which word is the one in addition?
Here's some context:
It's a dialogue in a computergame, where the Klingon High Council tells the player to do a mission (which 
is the Computergame). After the player has received his assignment, he answers "Your [plural, the HC]
conficence honors me and my family."

>>2. qorDu'wIj jIH je boquvmoH
>>only qorDu' is object, jIH could also be the object, but only if it were a 
>>noun.
>>"you honor <my family and I>"
>>"you honor my family and the viewing screen"
>
>The second possibility is nonsense and can be eliminated; no Klingon in 
>their right mind would hear this as "viewing screen" - unless they were 
>making an awful pun, of course.  <g>
Of course. I wrote it, because if it's a noun, then the phrase would be no problem and grammatically 
correct: {N1 N2 je bo-Verb} {you(pl) Verb them N1 and N2}

>Besides, pronouns *are* nouns.
Not 100 percent:
"Pronouns may be used as nouns, but only for emphasis or added clarity. They are not required." (TKD p.52)

If we use pronouns here like they *are* nouns, then I could say *ghaH SoH je vIlegh* like {targh Suy' je 
vIlegh}, but pronouns take the prefix of what they represent. Examples explain what I mean: {SoH qalegh}

>   pInaDqu' tuqlIj wInaDqu' je
>   Glory to you and your house.
>   ("We praise you highly; we also praise your house highly") KGT
>
>So, using this as a model:
>
>   qorDu'wIj boquvmoH, tuquvmoH je.
>   "you honor my family; you also honor me"

why not 
    tuquvmoH, qorDu'wIj boquvmoH je.
    "you honor me, you also honor my family"
    (like in your model above)?

>Another question is:  What is the order of pronouns in Klingon?  Different 
>languages don't always follow the same order.  Is it properly {qorDu'wIj 
>jIH je} "my family and I/me" (i.e. 3rd person, 2nd person, 1st person - as 
>in English) or {jIH qorDu'wIj je} "I/me and my family" (i.e. 1st person, 
>2nd person, 3rd person), or something else entirely?

I dunno if there's a rule for that in english, or any other language. I just did it like this, because my 
mother always taught me to say the other people's names first, and mine as last one: 
"there were three people: my sister, my father, and me." 
It's not grammatically wrong to say "Me, my father, and..." but it's unpolite. You would do this with 
things or animals: "Me and my dog."

Quvar.