tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Aug 15 16:48:08 2002
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Re: tlhIngan Hol lujatlhbogh puq'e'
From: "Stephan Schneider" <[email protected]>
> >The only
> >Type 5 suffix whose meaning doesn't usually preclude putting it in
subject
> >or object position is /-'e'/, which can mean either "focus" or "topic"
(and
> >I don't like the idea of automatically saying that it is one in one
position
> >and the other in another position).
>
> what did you mean in brackets? what positions?
I don't think we can necessarily say "If it's a subject or object it must be
focus, and if it's a header it must be topic."
> you're mixing up 'case' and 'part-of-sentence'.
No, but I may not be using the same terminology as you. The word "case" is
undefined for Klingon as far as the stuff Okrand has given us.
> the type-5 suffixes
> don't indicate the part-of-sentence (whether subject, object or
> header). they indicate the _case_ (that's why i would like to call
> them case tags). a locative (a noun with a locative case tag) can be
> the object (part-of-sentence) of a verb, or it can be in the header.
> we could also say that a focus (a noun with a focus case tag) can be
> the subject (part-of-sentence) of a to-be-verb. and so on.
> btw, i think case tags carry semantics, as the cases they form are
> linked with the semantics of the verb.
A rose by any other name. Personally, I see "subject," "object," and
"header" as the cases of Klingon nouns. A locative noun, for instance, is
usually a header, rarely an object, and virtually never a subject (we've
never seen one as a subject). A reason noun is virtually always a header,
and almost never a subject or object (we've never seen any of these,
either). A topic/emphasis noun is rarely a header, often a subject, and
often an object.
> has there been a consent on this topic? :)
We'd need an actual Klingon linguist, or at least a report from Marc Okrand,
to agree on something. Until then, everybody has his own pet theories.
> i would still like to distinguish between cases and
> parts-of-sentence, so i still would like to see /'e'/ as a case tag.
If you could say why, what utility it would have, we might be able to work
out a terminology to express the ideas you want. You just seem to be giving
things new names, but I for one haven't learned your names for things.
SuStel
Stardate 2624.0