Re: tlhIngan Hol lujatlhbogh puq'e'

["David Trimboli" <SuStel@hotmail.com>]

From: "Stephan Schneider" <sts@stephan-schneider.net>
> >The only
> >Type 5 suffix whose meaning doesn't usually preclude putting it in
subject
> >or object position is /-'e'/, which can mean either "focus" or "topic"
(and
> >I don't like the idea of automatically saying that it is one in one
position
> >and the other in another position).
>
> what did you mean in brackets? what positions?

I don't think we can necessarily say "If it's a subject or object it must be
focus, and if it's a header it must be topic."

> you're mixing up 'case' and 'part-of-sentence'.

No, but I may not be using the same terminology as you.  The word "case" is
undefined for Klingon as far as the stuff Okrand has given us.

> the type-5 suffixes
> don't indicate the part-of-sentence (whether subject, object or
> header). they indicate the _case_ (that's why i would like to call
> them case tags). a locative (a noun with a locative case tag) can be
> the object (part-of-sentence) of a verb, or it can be in the header.
> we could also say that a focus (a noun with a focus case tag) can be
> the subject (part-of-sentence) of a to-be-verb. and so on.
> btw, i think case tags carry semantics, as the cases they form are
> linked with the semantics of the verb.

A rose by any other name.  Personally, I see "subject," "object," and
"header" as the cases of Klingon nouns.  A locative noun, for instance, is
usually a header, rarely an object, and virtually never a subject (we've
never seen one as a subject).  A reason noun is virtually always a header,
and almost never a subject or object (we've never seen any of these,
either).  A topic/emphasis noun is rarely a header, often a subject, and
often an object.

> has there been a consent on this topic? :)

We'd need an actual Klingon linguist, or at least a report from Marc Okrand,
to agree on something.  Until then, everybody has his own pet theories.

> i would still like to distinguish between cases and
> parts-of-sentence, so i still would like to see /'e'/ as a case tag.

If you could say why, what utility it would have, we might be able to work
out a terminology to express the ideas you want.  You just seem to be giving
things new names, but I for one haven't learned your names for things.

SuStel
Stardate 2624.0