tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Aug 20 15:40:55 2000
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Re: Hello
>...The best-fitting name for her would be something like "Stands
>With a Fist", the character from the movie "Dances With Wolves".
ja' Voragh:
>The problem, as you know, is that Klingon doesn't have a preposition meaning
>"with" - either in the sense of accompany (tay') or use (lo') - but must use a
>verb phrase to render the idea. So you need to ask her what exactly "Stands
>With a Fist" means to her; ask her to phrase it in the form of a sentence.
There's no need to resort to a fancy phrase to render most meanings of the word "with". It often says merely that the action is done by two people or things simultaneously.
I eat with you -> you and I eat -> maSop soH jIH je.
He dances with sabre bears -> He and sabre bears dance -> mI' ghaH mIl'oDmey je.
So it's possible to translate "she stands with a fist" almost directly as
{Qam ghaH ro' je} "she and a fist stand". That's probably not what she
wants to say, though; there is probably some cultural meaning to the phrase
that doesn't come across in a literal translation.
>Coincidentally, there's a similar Klingon expression from _Klingon for the
>Galactic Traveller_ that you can adapt:
>
> ro'lIj HI'ang!
> Show me your fist!
>
>Okrand explains it as:
>
> "an idiomatic expression used to challenge someone to take
> action in a manner consistent with something he or she has
> just said." (KGT p.195)
>
>So we can call her {ro' 'angwI'} or {ro''angwI'} - one or two words, her
>preference - to mean "one who shows a fist". If you want to, you could expand
>this to {ro'Daj 'angwI'} - "one who shows his/her fist" (two words only) - but
>I think this is unnecessary over-precision. (Whose fist other than her own
>could she show?)
Watch out for the too-common temptation to render names using the {-wI'} suffix
on them. (I know, I'm guilty of it, but I regret my hasty choice of name.) It
is interesting to note that the phrase "Stands With a Fist" itself is not a
noun, and would be well served by the pseudo-translation {ro' 'ang} "shows a
fist".
>And the advantage of using a Klingon idiom is that she gets to explain a bit of
>Klingon culture to her friends when they ask her what her name means.
Agreed, though sometimes I get *very* strange looks when I try to talk about
Klingon culture as if it were something worthy of study.
-- ghunchu'wI' 'utlh