tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Aug 10 08:42:44 1999
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Re: qay' aspect jay'! Part 2
- From: "William H. Martin" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: qay' aspect jay'! Part 2
- Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:41:21 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
- In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
- Priority: NORMAL
As I see the repetitive thing, it has more to do with the
continuity of the action. {pIj chechtaH nuvpu' law'} as you
quoted me was chosen with {-taH} because I meant that many
people are often in a continuous state of being drunk. There is
no sense that they are becoming drunk or recovering from being
drunk. When you witness them, they are drunk and as you witness
them, they remain drunk.
voragh's {reH jabbI'IDghomvam laDtaH voragh net Sov!} suggests
that if you visited him, he'd be at the keyboard when you walked
in and while you visited, he'd stay at the keyboard and when you
left, he would still be at the keyboard. If instead, he greeted
you at the door and you had a pleasant visit and every now and
then, he walked over to the keyboard and answered a message or
two and then returned, then he probably should have said, {reH
jabbI'IDghomvam laDqa' voragh net Sov!}
Does this make sense? There is a difference between saying that
he is always doing it vs. saying that he is always doing it
AGAIN. The latter implies that the action is broken and
repetitive rather than continuous.
charghwI' 'utlh
On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:49:50 +-400 Carleton Copeland
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Ok, I'm reassured about my aspect-free past tenses, so let's get on with
> Part 2.
>
> Repetitive (as distinct from continuous) action is another point where TKD
> is rather less than enlightening. In English, the simple present is
> normally used to express on-going repetitive action: *the officer eats
> gagh often*.
>
> In Russian, the imperfective (akin to English continuous) is required, so
> that Russians learning English will often say things like *every day Boris
> is eating borsch* (or dismissing his prime minister).
>
> A quick look through recently archived posts tells me that *pIj qagh Sop
> yaS* (English-style) would be far more common, but that *pIj qagh SoptaH
> yaS* is probably also possible. Two examples of the latter construction
> are "pIj chechtaH nuvpu' law'" (charghwI' 'utlh) and "reH jabbI'IDghomvam
> laDtaH voragh net Sov!" (voragh).
>
> Might this express a difference between repetitive actions which are
> thought of as being more or less continuous? E.g., "voragh is always
> reading this list", implying that he reads it so often it's practically an
> unbroken process.
>
> The only clue I could find in TKD is the phrase *Duj tIvoqtaH* (Always
> trust your instincts), in which {-taH} is translated as *always*. If this
> is an exhortation to be continuously trusting of one's instincts, then I
> suppose *bIghobDI' Duj tIvoq!* would be the way of expressing a more
> punctuated repetition.
>
> qa'ral