Re: Up a blind alley

[Steven Boozer <sboozer@midway.uchicago.edu>]

qa'ral wrote:

: 4) This is no doubt an elementary question, but the web pages I'm using are
: silent on the matter:  How does one construct prepositional phrases using
: *with* and *by* in tlhingan Hol? 

Here's a post by Okrand you will find useful:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: Marc Okrand <mokrand@erols.com>
Newsgroups: startrek.klingon
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999
Subject: Re: ghew qab

Qermaq wrote:
>> Is there a way to say "with" in Klingon?  Such as, "He went with them."
>> Or does it have to be expressed like this (jaH chaH. jaH je ghaH.)?
>
> tlheD chaH. tlhej ghaH.

Qermaq's suggestion to use the verb <tlhej> "accompany" as a way to get
across the notion of "with" in the sentence meaning "he went with them" is
exactly right.

Its use is not restricted to the notion of going someplace ("accompany" in
the sense of "go with").  It is fine to say such things as:

    'Iw HIq vItlhutlh.  mutlhej ghaH.

"He/she drinks bloodwine with me," literally "I drink bloodwine.  He/she
accompanies me" (<'Iw HIq> "bloodwine,"  <vItlhutlh> "I drink it,"
<mutlhej> "he/she/they accompanies/accompany me," <ghaH> "he, she").
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Okrand wrote a brief explanation in HolQeD 2.4:

 In the sense of "accompanied by", with is usually translated by a 
 phrase employing the verb {tlhej}, "accompany." ... Thus, "I drink 
 tea with Torg and Maltz" would be: {Dargh vItlhutlhDI' mutlhej torgh 
 matlh je}. (Literally, "When I drink tea, Torg and Maltz accompany 
 me.") or {Dargh vItlhutlh. mutlhej torgh matlh je.} ("I drink tea. 
 Torg and Maltz accompany me.") or {Dargh vItlhutlh 'ej mutlhej torgh 
 matlh je.} ("I drink tea, and Torg and Maltz accompany me.")

Other examples of this use of {tlhej} include:

 QotDI' gheD tlhejbe' wamwI' 
 The hunter does not lie down with the prey. TKW

 bIQongtaHvIS nItlhejchugh targhmey bIvemDI' nItlhej ghIlab ghewmey 
 If you sleep with targs, you'll wake up with glob flies. TKW

 tach vI'el, HItlhej 
 Let's go to the pub. RT
 (i.e. Come with me to the pub.)

For the instrumental sense of with ("by means of"), the easiest method is to
use the formula {X lo'taHvIS} "while using X".  E.g.:

 pu'wIj vIlo'taHvIS romuluSngan vIHoH.
 I killed the Romulan with my phaser.
 lit. "(While I was) Using my phaser, I killed the Romulan ."

In the same spirit, you could also say:

 pu'wIj vIbachtaHvIS romuluSngan vIHoH.
 lit. "(While I was) Shooting my phaser ..."

In translating "with" and "by" you have to learn to rephrase your sentence -
"recast" as we often say on the List - using the language tools at our
disposal.  Once you get use to this, you'll find that there are very few
things
we cannot easily say for lack of Klingon grammar.  

Now, lack of Klingon vocabulary is another matter... but even that problem is
slowly disappearing as Maltz is prompted to reveal new words.


-- 
Voragh                       
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons