tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sun Dec 15 13:31:20 1996

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Re: Dr. Okarnd Speaks -- lengthy

On one hand, I thank you for sharing. On another hand, I hope 
this does not lead to Okrand getting inundated with questions 
and deciding to not answer anything at all in the future. 

It would have been nice had you asked us first, but then his 
explanation did have at least one surprise for me.

On Sun, 15 Dec 1996 12:28:04 -0800 Kenneth Traft 
<[email protected]> wrote:
...
> *****   Dr. Okrand's response  ********
> 
> Here's "what I think" about the two sentences in your note.

[lots of stuff about love deleted. Except for now having a canon 
to point to for the noun {parmaq}, which he explicitly states we 
don't know how to use, everything here was pretty much exactly 
what I had expected. Yes, I'll add {parmaq} to the word list.]
 
> I realize this doesn't help much; it raises more questions
> than it answers.  But when it comes to matters of the
> heart...

loQ mumonmoH *Okrand*.

> (2) You suggested translating "What is your favorite
> month?" as:
> 
> jarlIj qaq nuq?
> 
> This one's a little easier to deal with.  Your sentence
> literally means "What is your preferable month?"  The basic
> syntax is correct.  Question words (in this case, nuq
> "what?") function the same way pronouns do in questions
> with "to be" in the English translations.  Thus, the
> question yIH nuq? "What is a tribble?" is exactly parallel
> the statement yIH 'oH "It is a tribble" (where yIH is
> "tribble" and 'oH is "it").  

This is new. Until now, {nuq} functioned as a noun only. Now, he 
says it functions in all ways like a pronoun. In other words, it 
can function as a verb as well, "to be". Until now, the question 
had to be {nuq 'oH tribble'e'} or some might argue {tribble 'oH 
nuq'e'}. Now we can just say, {yIH nuq?} This is new, and 
useful. I suspect Krankor will be pleased. Of course, next 
people will be trying to put suffixes on {nuq}. Bad idea.

It would completely explain {nuqDaq}, of course...

But that begs to replace {qatlh} with *{nuqmo'}* and *{nuqmeH}*, 
which would each be less ambiguous than {qatlh}. Let's just use 
what he gave us and not start stretching it too much, okay?

> The answer to the question yIH
> nuq? ("What is a tribble?") would presumably be a
> definition or description of a tribble.  This being the
> case, then, the answer to the question jarlIj qaq nuq?
> ("What is your preferable month?") would presumably be a
> definition of "your favorite month." But this is not what
> you want to find out by asking your question.  What you
> really mean to ask is something like "Of all the months, which
> one do you prefer?"

Drumroll! Foolish heart be still!
 
> The first word in your sentence, jarlIj, means "your month"
> (jar "month," -lIj "your").  But given that what you're
> really asking is "Which month do you prefer?" it's not
> really "your month" at all.  The "you" should go with the
> verb, not with "month."
> 
> Which brings us to the verb.  You use qIb, "be preferable,"
> adjectivally (jarlIj qIb is "your preferable month").  

Okay. Okrand just had a little seizure. No cause for alarm. 
Replace {qIb} with {qaq} here.

> I
> think what you mean is better expressed by using the verb
> maS "prefer" with "you" as the subject: jar DamaS "you
> prefer the month."  If you want to highlight the notion of
> "most prefer," you can use the emphatic suffix -qu': jar
> DamaSqu' "you very much prefer the month."  (In this case,
> since "prefer" involves making a choice, the one chosen is
> automatically the one that is "most" preferred.)
> 
> So what about the "what" (or "which") of your original
> question ("What/which is your favorite month?")?  When
> asking someone a question of this type, you are really
> asking him or her to make a choice.  So just be a Klingon
> and order them to do so: "Identify the month that you very
> much prefer!":
> 
> jar DamaSqu'bogh yIngu' 

You have no idea how much this means to me. I've been saying 
this for a year or two now, and most folks have responded, 
"Yeah, yeah, that kind of works, but what we REALLY need is a 
word for 'which'." Well, there you have it gentlemen! How 
am I doing? Quick score:

Use of {ghach}: right
{-moH} on transitives: wrong
How to ask "which": right

I'm sure there are others, but I can't think of them right now. 
The {-moH} thing is the only thing I remember being totally 
clueless on. Anyway, on THIS one, I'm ready for the champagne! 
I'm expecting high fives at qep'a' loSDIch! His example is 
EXACTLY the way I would have cast the question.

Ah, the glory!

> DamaSqu'bogh "that you very much prefer" (DamaSqu' "you
> very much prefer it" plus -bogh "which," the
> relative-clause marker) modifies jar "month" and the whole
> phrase jar DamaSqu'bogh "the month that you very much
> prefer" is the object of the verb ngu' ("identify"), which
> is preceded by the imperative prefix yI- ("do something to
> it!").
> 
> Given that there's an awful lot about Klingon grammar that's not yet known, 
> you did a good job coming up with the translations you came up with.  I hope 
> my explanations and clarifications make sense.
> 
> Qapla'!
> 
>   - Marc

I think I'm going to cry...

charghwI'

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