tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon May 01 10:36:15 1995

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Re: latlh



>Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 23:50:13 -0400
>Originator: [email protected]
>From: "R.B Franklin" <[email protected]>

>Fri, 28 Apr 1995 ghItlh peHruS:

>> Since <latlh> is a noun, perhaps it acts as do <Hoch> and <pagh>.  See TKD
>> p54 Sec. 5.2
>> 
>> >Numbers are used as nouns.

>That means they can function as the subject or object of a sentence.

>> >Numbers used as modifiers precede the noun they modify.

>This makes numbers unique.  Neither nouns nor verbs do this.
>{Hoch} is a noun.  {pagh} is a number.  Their use is somewhat different.

>In PK, there is the phrase:  
>{targhlIj yab tIn law' no'lI' Hoch yabDu' tIn puS.} 
>("My targ has a bigger brain than all of your ancestors put together.") 

>Here {no'lI' Hoch} means "all of your ancesters".  In this noun-noun 
>construction, {Hoch} follows the noun.  But if I wanted to say "no or zero 
>ancestors", it would be {pagh no'} because numbers precede the noun they 
>modify.

>Since {latlh} is a noun and not a number, if I wanted to say "another 
>one of your ancestors", it would be {no'lI' latlh}.

In all fairness, it must be said that the details of this "Hoch" business
are *not* 100% resolved.  Glen Proechel maintains firmly that "Hoch", like
"pagh" should be considered a number and come *before* the noun it
modifies, and even Krankor is sitting on the fence.  I have some to favor
treating it as a noun and outting it afterwards, not because I think that
is necessarily the only possible choice, but because I lack any better
evidence.  I would feel that Klingon had become something alien
(um... well, you know) if it turned out I was wrong.

The one canon use of "Hoch" for "all of", quoted above, is unfortunately no
help.  Following-Hochers would translate "no'lI' Hoch yabDu'" as "the
brains of all your ancestors", with Hoch modifying no'lI'.
Preceding-Hochers would say it means "All of the brains of your ancestors",
with Hoch modifying yabDu'.  Even Okrand's intonation doesn't help us.  I
think there's still room for disagreement on this.

>> peHruS

>yoDtargh


~mark


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