tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Nov 28 15:04:45 1994
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
Re: please pay some respect to lingual minorities
>Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 17:00:30 -0500
>Originator: [email protected]
>From: [email protected] (Sami Laitala)
>After subscribing THLINGAN-HOL, I received an interesting
>file. I'd like to comment on a few lines in it that annoyed
>me.
>> There are basically two kinds of postings that will <
>> appear on this list: <
>> <
>> - Messages about anything, written in Klingon <
>> - Messages about Klingon, written in English <
>This gives me an impression that only these languages are
>allowed. I would find that attitude rather awkward since I
>know that people who subscribe and contribute articles to
>thlingan-hol mailings also contribute to such lists as
>esperanto, welsh-l and conlang and I know several subscribers
>of thlingan-hol can read Finnish. It would be a FAIR REQUEST
>to include an English translation or abstract from those
>people, who would feel more confident expressing themselves in
>some other language than English. Non-native English speakers
>like myself can't necessary follow all the hair-splitting
>argumentation on Klingon grammar.
Hmm. It's a tough problem, certainly. I read all the lists you mention
(Except the Esperanto list--I read Esperanto, but not the mailing list).
The fact that lots of people don't speak each other's languages is what
caused all those attempts at international languages in the first
place--you don't need me to tell you it's a problem.
Now, this list was (obviously) set up by English-speakers, and what's more,
the Klingon Dictionary itself has not (to my knowledge) been translated
into any other languages, which really limits the chances that anyone will
do get involved in Klingon enough to want to join the list without enough
English knowledge to get by (at least to read the dictionary). English was
chosen as the language of choice for this list probably because the early
members of the list were all English-speaking.
Obviously, we'd prefer a language we can all understand as the language of
discussion on this list. The only language for which we have proof that
people interested in Klingon would know is English (as I said above,
because that's the only language you can get the dictionary in). I think
that at the very least, if you post in a language other than Klingon or
English, you should be expected to post a translation (or *very* detailed
abstract) in one of those languages. After all, it's one thing to post a
short summary in English and expect people to work hard at the Klingon to
get the full meaning; we're here to learn Klingon anyway. Or to post in
English and make less-proficient speakers struggle to make sense of a long
post. But given that English is the only language we know we all have at
least partly in common, and given the fact that many people here wouldn't
have a clue where even to *start* given a Finnish message (assuming they
even recognize it's Finnish), anything you write in Finnish and not stated
in English or maybe Klingon, you have to assume a lot of people simply
won't see, not even a little bit.
Oh, and I think you'll find that a lot of the native English-speakers
complain that the grammar arguments are hard to follow, with all the
specialized terms you need to discuss them...
>Having said all this I realize that it wasn't meant that way,
>yet I feel offended by suggestion that my language isn't as
>good means of communication as English. Or if it's not that
>then learning Klingon is a privilege of English speakers only,
>and all the others should keep away. Even though this is a
>serious topic, my little remark is not meant to be taken too
>seriously, yet I would like to see those lines changed into
>something more respectful toward speakers of other languages.
That's likely legitimate; the implication is more that there are two
languages in the world: Klingon and English. Maybe even just a quick
sentence beforehand pointing out that the language of discourse on the list
is English.
>Even though I can't understand a word of Klingon yet, it seems
>to me that Klingon is agglutinative language like Finnish. (Is
>it?) the idea alone gives me a thrill...
It's certainly more agglutinative than English is.
>By the way, is there any lingual minorities within the Klingon
>Empire, I just wonder, eh...?
Argh, *one* Klingon language is giving us quite enough trouble, thank you!
:-)
>Sami,
>[email protected]
~mark