tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Jan 07 10:24:57 2011

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Re: mu'tlheghvam yIlughmoH

lojmIt tI'wI'nuv ([email protected]) 

Are there any canon examples of a question as object as you propose here? Typically, {'e'} represents a sentence, not the answer or response to a sentence, which is what you are suggesting. 

You may be completely correct. My only issue is that I don't understand how this is supposed to work. 

lojmIt tI'wI'nuv

Sent from my iPod

On Jan 7, 2011, at 10:17 AM, Steven Boozer <[email protected]> wrote:

> Still another way of asking this question is with a verb {van} "end (an event)":
> 
>  chay' van bomvam?  wej 'e' vISov.
>  How does this song end?  I don't know [that] yet.
> 
> 
> HQ 12.2 p.8-9:  Generally, one expresses the end of a stretch of time by using a verb rather than a noun. That is, one says "when the month ends" rather than "at the end of the month". The verb for this kind of end is {Dor} [...] When an event over which one has some control ends (one can't cause a month to end), a different verb is used: {van}. This would apply to such things as voyages, battles, plays, operas, stories, and songs. Here, the event (the voyage, the song) doesn't end; the participant in the event or the perpetrator of the event ends it. [...] Note that the voyage and the song cannot end themselves. Someone has to end them. [...] 
>   There is a difference between the end of the performance of a song or opera or play, indicated by making use of the verbs {van} and {ghang} ["end (an event) prematurely"], and the ending, or final portion, of a song or opera or play itself. For an opera, play, story, speech, and so on, the final portion is its {bertlham}. This word usually refers to the last aria or other musical portion in an opera, last speech in a play, last sentence or so of a story or an address [...] For a song--but only for a song--the final portion is its {'o'megh}. Parallel to {bertlham}, {'o'megh} is the final phrase or so of the song, one that brings the song to a definite conclusion. All songs have endings ({'o'meghmey}), some more elaborate or stirring than others. 
> 
> 
> --
> Voragh                          
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
> 
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
>> On Behalf Of lojmIt tI'wI' nuv
>> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 8:17 AM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: mu'tlheghvam yIlughmoH
>> 
>> A more direct way to say this would perhaps be {bomvam 'o'meH
>> vISovbe'.} You seem to go way out of your way to force {'e'} into
>> sentences that don't need it. You also really like pronouns.
>> 
>> One of Okrand's goals in designing Klingon was to get rid of the verb
>> "to be", and then working with real scripts, he conceded, "Okay, you
>> can use pronouns for 'to be'." There are not a lot of examples of him
>> using it, and when he does, it tends to be very straightforward, like
>> {tlhIngan maH}. English speakers LOVE the various forms of the word "to
>> be" and "to go" and "to do" and we pad most of our sentence with them.
>> 
>> Klingon is not encoded English. It is an alien language. Your mind is
>> supposed to work differently when you are speaking Klingon than it does
>> when you are speaking English. That's the fun part of using it for me.
>> I like having to think differently.
>> 
>> Step one is to simplify. Boil the meaning down to its essence, then
>> build a Klingon sentence with that essence, dumping "to be" whenever
>> you can. There are times when it is just the right thing, like
>> {tlhIngan maH}. But much of the time, you don't need "to be". You also
>> usually don't need sentences tied to other sentences. You can simplify
>> things down to nuggets. It's an attitude as much as it is a process.
>> 
>> In my opinion.
>> 
>> pItlh.
>> lojmIt tI'wI' nuv
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 7, 2011, at 8:22 AM, Felix Malmenbeck wrote:
>> 
>>>> {nuq 'oH bomvam 'o'megh 'e' wej vISov}
>>> {nuq 'oH bomvam 'o'megh'e'. wej vISov.} DaghItlh 'e' DaHechpu''a'.
>>> 
>>> {How does this song end?  I don't know yet.}
>>> bIlugh.
>>> 
>>> jISIv, lughlaH'a' mu'tlheghmey.  jISovchu'be'.  lughlaH nuvpu'. 'e'
>> vISov *canon*mo'.  ...'ej lughlaHlaw' Sormey.
>>> mu'tlheghmey nuvpu' je vIDelmeH wa' mu' DIvI' Hol vIjatlhtaHvIS. 'a
>> SoSwI' Hol vIjatlhtaHvIS pIm ghu'.
>>> Sov'a' vay'.
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: [email protected] [[email protected]] on
>> behalf of Ruben Molina [[email protected]]
>>> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 04:37
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: mu'tlheghvam yIlughmoH
>>> 
>>> juppu' Savan,
>>> 
>>> {nuq 'oH bomvam 'o'megh 'e' wej vISov} qar'a'
>>> yIlughmoH qarbe'chugh mu'tlheghvam.
>>> 
>>> ruben
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
>

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