tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Mar 27 08:54:46 2006

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Re: <Bloodwine> tlhIngan

Terrence Donnelly ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 

Let me explain how I would translate that
sentence: {'Iw HIq luchenmoHDI' tlhIngan, 'Iwna'
lulo''a'?} "When Klingons make bloodwine, do they
use real blood?" (literally: blood wine they-
make-when klingon(s), blood-real they-use-?)

{'Iw HIq} is a simple Noun-Noun compound: the
first noun describes the second in an "adjectival"
way: wine/liquor of blood = bloodwine. (I was
going to say that this is also a canon word, but
to my surprise, I can't actually find it in the
wordlist.)

{lu-} is the "3rd plural subject, 3rd singular
object" verb prefix: they X it.

{chenmoH} is a suffixed verb made from {chen} "to
take form", but it's also a dictionary verb meaning
"to form or make".  Actually, this probably isn't
the best verb for this, and I know that there is
a verb for brewing, but I don't have my TKD with
me and I can't recall it.  {chenmoH} isn't wrong,
but there is a more accurate verb, too.

{-DI'} means "when", as in consecutive events:
"When they make bloodwine, then..."  You could
make an argument for {-taHvIS} here instead:
"while they are making..." . I see a slightly
different emphasis, but either is probably OK.

{tlhIngan} can also mean "Klingons": we know
that plural suffixes are optional, and the verb
prefix clearly marks the noun as plural, so the
explicit plural suffix is not needed.

{'Iwna'} is the noun {'Iw} + suffix {-na'}. This
is defined as "definite", but I think the idea of
"real" is also implied.

{lulo''a'} is the verb {lo'} "to use", with the
"they-it" prefix and the interrogative suffix
{-'a'}.  Note the need for _two_ glottal stops
when adding it to the verb.

Let me just point out that verbs with the suffix
{-lu'} _never_ take a subject, although the
meaning can sometimes be equivalent to an
impersonal English phrase: {HIq chenmoHlu' =
HIq chenmoH vay'} "the wine is made/someone makes
the wine".  But you could never have {-lu'} and
a subject: *{HIq chenmoHlu' vay'} "the wine is
made someone".

Also, nouns that describe other nouns come before
the noun they are describing.  The essence of the
Noun1-Noun2 phrase is that Noun2 defines a
universal set (eg. all bloodwines in the Universe)
and Noun1 restricts the set in some way (eg.
only the Klingon ones). {tlhIngan 'Iw HIq} = "of
all the blood wines in the Universe, the Klingon
one" or "Klingon bloodwine".

-- ter'eS BG

--- Shane MiQogh <[email protected]> wrote:

> tlhIngan is used to describe the noun. That's why...
> i used 'e' to seperate it so when i said it there
> wouldn't be confusing thinking they was the "Klingon
> Bloodwine". I was asking if supposedly Klingon
> bloodwine was made with blood.
> Terrence Donnelly <[email protected]>
> wrote:  Maybe you could give your English
> translation of
> this; I'm having some trouble trying to figure
> out what you are saying. The first phrase
> doesn't need a subject, and {'e'} is only an
> object anyway, and the second phrase looks like
> 2 unrelated nouns.
> 
> -- ter'eS BG
> 
> --- Shane MiQogh wrote:
> 
> > 'Iw luchenmoHlu' 'e', tlhIngan?
> >

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