tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Jul 27 11:27:15 2004

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Re: use and purpose of this list.

David Trimboli ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

From: "...Paul" <[email protected]>
> Now, the flip side.  You don't get off unscathed.  :)  I've said this MANY
> times before, and it's almost always in response to the *same* handful of
> people on this list.
> Some of you 'experts' are so wrapped up in your
> authority as such, that you definitely have a running pattern of coming
> across very brusque whenever someone who is NOT an "expert" posits
> something you disagree with.

How's this for flip side: you keep repeating the same position over and over
to the same handful of people on the list.  This gets annoying after a
while.  We've heard you.  We've heard him.

We're perfectly happy to discuss alternate viewpoints.  We're NOT required
to agree with them, any more than those espousing them are required to agree
with us.  I do NOT claim any special authority, except that I know what the
hell I'm talking about.  IF YOU WANT TO BELIEVE SOMETHING I DON'T, FEEL
FREE.

And I think you'll find that some of us come across as brusque whether we
agree with you or not.  You just like to notice that selectively.

> Instead of responding with insightful
> comments and logical explanations for disagreement, you often resort to
> this kind of "tough guy" behavior, pushing your views on the list by
> merely bullying people into submission (or into leaving).  For example:
>
> > tlhIngan Hol Dajatlhqu'Qo'chugh...vaj bIjatlh 'e' yImev.

How many DOZENS of denigrating messages has lay'tel SIvten sent to the list,
implying or stating that Klingon is inadequate or inferior?  If you go back
into the archives, you'll see that when he started having his "revelations,"
we all tried to discuss them fairly.  Eventually, the "*same* handful of
people on this list" have gotten tired of listening to their constructed
language of choice insulted, and they get angry.  And when someone gets
angry at him from his antagonizing, he throws up the "I'm an innocent newbie
being attacked by fascist curmudgeons!" flag.

I repeat: we DO start with "insightful comments and logical explanations for
disagreement."  But there's always a group of people who want to emasculate,
not examine, and listening to enough of this will annoy anybody.  lay'tel
SIvten is like the younger sibling sitting next to you in the back seat of
your parents' car on a long trip.  He keeps pinching you until you finally
yell or smack him, then he cries to your parents and they punish YOU instead
of him.

lay'tel SIvten is a very clever sort of troll.  He has a much more patience
than I do.  He instigates, I lose my temper before he does, he is
vindicated.  The fact that I am easily upset by people attacking in a cold,
emotionless medium shouldn't affect the validity of what I say, but it does.
Whoever keeps his cool automatically wins, and he plays this like a fiddle.
And you buy it.

> As has been discussed before, this list is for either speaking IN Klingon,
> or speaking ABOUT Klingon.  You are out of line to tell anyone not to
> speak on this list just because they're not doing it in Klingon,
> particularly if they are at least speaking *about* the language.

Ah, but ghunchu'wI' said it *in* Klingon.  His post was more on-topic than
mine is.  And if we're not allowed to tell anybody what to do on the list,
that includes you telling him not to tell someone else what to do.

Or are you going to appeal to common decency?  Like the decency not to
regularly insult the topic of a discussion group, and not to intentionally
offend the members of that group?

How do you say "double standard" in Klingon?

SuStel
Stardate 4571.5

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