tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Dec 31 08:56:10 2003

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Re: "movie" (was Re: MOST terminology)

Alan Anderson ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

ja' SuStel:
>For the record, I have a pretty clear idea of what my boundaries for /HaSta/
>are, but I don't have a succinct way to define it.  Give me a situation, and
>I'll say yea, nay, or ehhh . . . .

<<vIQIjlaHbe', 'ach vIleghDI' vISov.>>

Explicitly subjective "definitions" like that are why debates like this
don't work.

>Or put it another way.  Can YOU define the difference between the image
>produced by a security camera and the image shown in a film?  If you can
>define that, I'll be able to use that to try to show you why I find /HaSta/
>applicable to the former but not the latter.

Oh, that's easy.  It's like the difference between English and Esperanto.
A security camera shows "natural" images, so that the viewer sees exactly
what is going on in reality from the viewpoint of the camera.  A movie
shows "artificial" images, so that the viewrs see what the movie's producer
wants them to see.

>> However, instead of pursuing the matter until one or both of us leaves in
>> disgust, I will take my opinion, leave you to yours, and cease the
>> discussion.
>
>Basically, I presume, because you don't want to answer the other questions
>I've posed, like whether /HaSta/ can refer to statues, prides of weapons,
>mime performances, computer graphics, and so on.  And that's okay, because
>it proves the point I've been making all along: we don't know for sure, not
>even close, and to deny this is pointless.

In fact, I *did* answer them all in rather a lot of detail, but I deleted
the note because all my answers were based on *my* understanding of the
English phrase "visual display" in the context where {HaSta} was used in
Star Trek: The Motion Picture.  The basic idea is that {HaSta} applies to
something that *could* be recorded by a security camera.  Suspension of
disbelief does not disqualify an image from fitting the category, in my
opinion.

>P.S.: My opinion on translating a computer OS "window": just use the same
>metaphor that English uses.  Call it a /Qorwagh/.  It's not a Klingon OS;
>Klingons don't have any words for it, and it should be understood that this
>is my opinion, not the end-all truth of translating (and I don't think that
>it is).  While /HaSta/ would, IN MY OPINION, by a misuse of the word (and
>could be put to better use in describing webcams and the like), any
>perceived misuse of /Qorwagh/ would be based on an identical misuse of the
>English word "window," and is irrelevant.

Hmm.  It looks like your entire opinion is irrelevant -- Nick's use of
{HaSta} was for the *contents* of a window.  (I could start a meta-tangent
here by trying to come up with a Klingon word for "strawman argument".)

-- ghunchu'wI'

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