tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Jan 09 14:08:32 1998
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
Re: {-meH} and its useage
- From: Steven Boozer <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: {-meH} and its useage
- Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 16:04:16 -0600 (CST)
: I just wondered how it would look like if a {-meH} phrase would modify a
: verb, especially if both the {-meH} phrase *and* the other verb has both
: subject and object.
Some quick reactions. Remember, all verbs in a sentence have a subject, it's
just not always explicitly stated. Here are examples of -meH clauses from
canon with verbs having objects (explicit and otherwise) for you to examine:
jagh luHoHmeH jagh lunejtaH
They are searching for the enemy in order to kill him
("In order to kill the enemy, they are searching for the enemy"). TKD
cha'puj vIngevmeH chaw' HInobneS
Give me a permit to sell dilithium, your honor. PK
qa' wIje'meH maSuv
We fight to enrich the spirit.
("We fight in order to feed the spirit.") TKW
yIn DayajmeH 'oy' yISIQ
To understand life, endure pain. TKW
tlhIngan ngoQmey chavmeH HoH tlhInganpu'
Klingons kill for their own purposes. TKW
HIq DaSammeH tach yI'el
To find ale, go into a bar. TKW
noH QapmeH wo' Qaw'lu'chugh yay chavbe'lu' 'ej wo' choqmeH may' DoHlu'chugh
lujbe'lu' Destroying an empire to win a war is no victory, and ending a
battle to save an empire
is no defeat. TKW
motlh ray' luSamlaHmeH De' Qatlh cha' tlhIngan Duj jIH'a'
The main viewer on a Klingon ship is usually overlaid with a complex target
acquisition
grid. SP3
luchovmeH 'oy'naQmey lo'
[Warriors] who test him with painstiks. S9
SuvwI' vI' Dub naQvam 'ej ray' HopDaq bachlu'meH chuqna' ghurmoH naQvam
This serves to steady the aim of a warrior and increase the effective range for
distance targeting. S14
tera' vatlh DISpoH cha'maH loS bong QongmeH qItI'nga Duj tI'ang ghompu'
DIvI' 'ejDo' 'entepray' A sleeper ship of this [K'Tinga] class, the T'Ong,
was encountered in the 24th century by the USS Enterprise. S15
vaj malopmeH tlhIHvaD nob SaSuqpu'
So to celebrate, I've gotten you all a gift. (Hallmark)
juHqo'Daq vaS'a' tu'lu'. ngoch luchermeH 'ej wo' San luwuqmeH pa' ghom
tlhIngan yejquv DevwI'pu'.
On the Homeworld, there is a great hall where the leaders of the Klingon
High Council meet
to determine policy and decide upon the fate of the Empire. S25
ngoDvam luchavmeH ghawran maghpu' be'nI'pu'. woQ luSuqmeH jIjpu' chaH
romuluSngan'e' je.
To this end, the sisters have acted against Gowron, going as far as to work
with Romulan factions in order to gain power. S26
SIQwI' lu'oy'moHmeH juppu'Daj 'oy'naQmey lo' chaH. SuvwI' qa' patlh veb
chavlaHmeH tlhIngan lo'chu' chaH. toDujDaj toblu'
The Painstik is employed by friends of the recipient who use the devices
[painstiks]
to inflict pain in a manner which will allow the Klingon to attain a higher
state of
spirituality as a warrior, proving his mettle. S32
chIch vay' 'oy'moHmeH 'oy'naQ 'ul law' tlhuD 'oH
Painstiks... emit a highly-charged shock for the express purpose of
inflicting pain. S32
: My example sentence is:
: The warrior attacks the boy in order to learn the boy {tonSaw'}.
This English sentence is unclear. Do you mean that 1) the warrior attacks
the boy in order to teach the boy tonSaw' (i.e. the warrior is the boy's
tonSaw' teacher), or 2) the warrior attacks the boy in order to judge the
state of the boy's tonSaw' (in order to see how good the boy really is or
trick the boy into revealing his ability or learn which style of tonSaw' the
boy uses)?
: Now, should this be expressed as:
: {tonSaw' ghojmeH loDHom loDHom HIv SuvwI'}
: or:
: {loDHom tonSaw' ghojmeH loDHom HIv SuvwI'}
: (Since the TKD [p64] talks about the purpose clause preceeding the *verb*,
: not the object-verb-subject construction.)
:
: And in both these cases it would be easy to mix up subject and object of
: the two phrases, for example if the final object-verb-subject did not have
: an object noun.
You could replace one of the {loDHom}s with a pronoun. You can also just
leave the {ghaH} out altogether. Using punctuation helps too.
1) tonSaw' ghojmeH loDHom, (ghaH) HIv SuvwI'.
or you could put the -meH clause last:
(ghaH) HIv SuvwI', tonSaw' ghojmeH loDHom.
2) tonSaw'Daj ghojmeH, loDHom HIv SuvwI'.
I'm sure you will hear other suggestions.
: /{'eQ}, Sweden
Voragh