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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] fiat justitia ruat coelum

Felix Malmenbeck (felixm@kth.se)



{HochvaD jang} vIwIvnIS 'ach jIlujpu'. QInvam cha' chovnatlhmey Hevmo' SuStel jIQoS.

> I don't get "though" out of "also." "If the stars must also die [in
> addition to doing something else we said before], may justice succeed."

My reading of "though" is quite close to my reading of "also": It says "also in this other case".
It's true, however, that there doesn't seem to be anything to suggest that {je} carries some sense of incredulity.

> pumchugh Hovmey ruv chavlu'jaj
> if the heavens fall, may justice be achieved

My problem with this is that it reads almost as though the stars falling is actually a condition for justice to be done.

If one doesn't insist on keeping the phrase short, one could be a bit more explicit:

pumchugh Hovmey pagh pumbe'chugh, ruv chavnISlu'.
"If the stars fall, or if they don't fall, justice must be achieved."

Thus stating a sort of indifference to the stars' falling, similar to {vIpollaH pagh vIpolHa'laH.}
________________________________________
From: David Trimboli [david@trimboli.name]
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2013 18:34
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] fiat justitia ruat coelum

On 9/2/2013 10:50 AM, Felix Malmenbeck wrote:
> From: De'vID [de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com]
>
>> How would one translate "fiat justitia ruat coelum", i.e., "Let
>> justice be done though the heavens fall."
>>
>> My attempt:
>> {ruv chavlu'jaj, vabDot pumnISchugh Hovmey.}
>>
>> I'm not quite sure if {vabDot} works with {-chugh} the way "even" and
>> "if" combine in English, though.

Qo'noS romuluS je boSuqlaH. vabDot tera' Qejbogh DIvI' ram boSuqlaH.
"Kronos, Romulus and even the puny Federation's precious Earth are all
up for grabs."

My reading of {vabDot} is something like, "this, too, if you can believe
it." The English has a sense of incredulity that, if it exists at all in
the Klingon, must come from {vabDot}. It's hard to be sure with just one
loosely translated sentence, though.

If this is correct, it's not suitable for turning conditional clauses
into subjunctives.

> How about using {je}?
>
> «HeghnISchugh je Hovmey, Qapjaj ruv.»
> = "May justice succeed, also if the stars must die."

I don't get "though" out of "also." "If the stars must also die [in
addition to doing something else we said before], may justice succeed."

What you're both having trouble with here is that Klingon has no
subjunctive mood (unless {-jaj} counts). I know this is applicable here,
because this very quotation is used in at least one latin grammar to
illustrate English subjunctive! <http://tinyurl.com/mzjr3s3> There is no
Klingon equivalent to the English subjunctive "though the heavens fall."

The closest you can get is a conditional:

pumchugh Hovmey ruv chavlu'jaj
if the heavens fall, may justice be achieved

I'm assuming that the sense of the original is a wish, not a command. If
it's a command, then use this:

pumchugh Hovmey ruv yIchav
if the heavens fall, achieve justice!

I went with {chav} "achieve" rather than {ta'} "accomplish" on the
notion that justice is a state to be brought about rather than a deed to
be performed. If that's wrong, change to {ta'}.

--
SuStel
http://www.trimboli.name/

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