tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Jan 07 19:32:00 2013
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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] mIl'oD veDDIr SuvwI': 'ay' 15 - pop 'oH ghob'e'
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jIjatlhpu':<br>> If anyone's still reading after my lengthy <br><div>> absences, 'avtanDIl just buttered up roStevan <br>> and promised that he would go to every boundary <br>> of the Kol'vat Region to announce the joyous <br>> news of tIna'tIn's accession to the throne. <br>> Comments, criticism, and questions are as always most welcome.<br><br>jang Qov, jatlh:<br>> vIlaDqangbej.<br><br>maj.<br><br>> lut chIlpu' De'wI'wIj 'e' vIHaj.<br><br>DIvI' Hol chovnatlh? PDF vIghaj; qangeHqangqa' DaneHchugh.<br><br>> The language is quite dense and has to be <br>> digested slowly in any language.<br><br>Very true.<br><br>> Today I feel <br>> like translating, as a way of showing you what I <br>> get from reading, sharing the story with people <br>> who wouldn't otherwise see it, and of opening my <br>> own comprehension to scrutiny.<br><br>qay'be'; an interesting way of doing it.<br><br>> 'ay' 15: pop 'oH ghob'e'<br>> ----------<br>> >ghIq voDleH vaS 'el SuvwI' net chaw';<br>> <br>> And then the warrior was admitted to the Hall of the Emperor;<br>> <br>> > 'utlh vuv ghaH 'ej tlho'meH mu'mey jatlh:<br>> <br>> He respected the patriarch and spoke words of thanks:<br>> <br>> >«'o 'utlh, chonaDqu'ta'mo' choquvqu'moHneS! DaH <br>> >nuchevbogh 'IttaHghach ram'e' wovmoHjaj QI'tu', <br>> >'ej qablIj bel belqa'moHlu'pu'bogh vIlegh 'e' chaw'jaj.»<br>> <br>> O Sire, your high commendations have honoured me <br>> deeply! Let heaven illuminate the night of <br>> depression which separates us, and let me see your face made joyous again."<br>> <br>> [Consider Hurgh instead of ram there. Choosing <br>> there between the adjective and noun meanings of <br>> Hurgh would be simpler than those of ram.<br><br>I've run across that problem a couple of times and that's an excellent solution.<br><br>> I also <br>> couldn't find a way to cram an second instance of <br>> bel into the English translation in a way that <br>> added anything to the sentence. Does it have a <br>> purpose that eludes me in the Klingon?]<br><br>Not really. The English rendition I have is "let me see again in joy your joyful face", and I realise now that he doesn't mean "let me see your joyful face in joy again". vIchoH:<br><br>belbogh qablIj vIlegh jIbeltaHvIS je jIH 'e' chaw'jaj.<br> <br>> >DeSDajDaq ghaH tlhap roStevan 'ej paw'chu';<br>> <br>> Rostevan took him in his arms and they <br>> [demonstrated affection in a culturally appropriate manner].<br><br>Well put. :)<br><br>> >tlhoS puqloDna'Daj rur 'avtanDIl.<br>> <br>> Avtandil was almost like his real son.<br><br>lughchu'.<br><br>> >chaH rurbogh chang'eng'e' not tu'lu'pu' – <br>> >Qorghbogh vay', vay' Qorghlu'pu'bogh joq.<br>> <br>> A twin like him had never been found--neither <br>> someone who took care of him nor who had been cared for.<br>> [I wonder if SaH is preferable to Qorgh here. I'm <br>> not really getting the point of Qorghlu'pu'bogh as an asset.]<br><br>The pronoun is {chaH}: "A pair like THEM had never been found, neither carer nor cared-for". The English is "like unto them have none been, neither upbringer nor upbrought".<br><br>taH:<br>> >tagha' QamchoH SuvwI', 'ej mej.<br>> <br>> At last the warrior stood up and left.<br>> <br>> >luchevlu'law'pu' chaH; 'avtanDIlvaD loQ SaQchoH <br>> >valqu'bogh 'ej quvqu'bogh roStevan.<br>> <br>> They had been separated. The wisest and most <br>> honoured roStevan shed a tear for Avtandil.<br>> <br>> >vaj mej 'avtanDIl, yItchu'bogh 'ej jaqchu'bogh SuvwI' yoH.<br>> <br>> Thus Avtandil departed, a brave warrior who walked out freely and boldly.<br>> <br>> >cha'maH jaj lengtaH; pem law', ram law' je tay'moHchu'.<br>> <br>> He travelled for twenty days; many days and nights indistinguishable.<br>> <br>> >not tIna'tIn'e', tIqDaj meQmoHtaHbogh be''e', Qubbe'choH;<br>> <br>> He never stopped thinking of Tinatin, the woman who enflamed his heart.<br>> <br>> [Not sure if that's a word, but I need to distinguish from inflamed.]<br><br>Heh, fair enough!<br><br>taH:<br>> qo' bel ghaH tIna'tIn'e', mIp'a' wellu'bogh ghaH.<br>> <br>> Tinatin was a pleasant world,. She was a fortune owed.<br><br>Hrm. I see how you got "a pleasant world". I'll change it to {qo'vaD bel} or {qo' bel'a'} (the English is "She is the joy of the world, she is treasure and due").<br><br>> [Not sure I know what that means, but that's what it says.]<br>> <br>> >Dat jaHDI', lopqu'taH Sep nuvpu'. luqIH 'ej <br>> >lughom chuQun, 'ej nobmey wagh nobtaH.<br>> <br>> Everywhere he went the region's people were <br>> celebrating. They met him and the nobility <br>> assembled and gave him [or possibly her, in trust] expensive gifts.<br>> <br>> >QIt lengbe'bej loD Qup'e', Dat paSbe'qu' jul rurbogh loD'e', nom lengtaHvIS.<br>> <br>> The young man by no means travelled slowly. The <br>> man who was like the sun was everywhere, not at all late, travelling quickly.<br>> <br>> [Late for what? I know you're working with an overwrought original.]<br><br>Yeah, pretty much. "The sun-faced had not wasted time in his rapid journey". ...Wasted time for what? I'm not sure. I may change this to something using moD.<br><br>> >nuvpu' lubelqu'choHmoHlu'chu', luqIHDI' 'ej ghaHDaq SumchoHDI'.<br>> <br>> People became ecstatic on making his acquaintance, and when they came near him.<br>> <br>> [wejpuH]<br>> <br>> >wo' veH nuvpu' ghIjlaHchu'bogh veng HoS'e' che' 'avtanDIl;<br>> <br>> Avtandill ruled the powerful city that could terrify the borderland people.<br>> [meqvetlh vIlaj.]<br>> <br>> >naghna' 'oH yergho'e', chenmoHlu'meH nagh'a' tIn lumutlhlu'ta'.<br>> <br>> The city wall was known to be stone, constructed of large boulders.<br>> <br>> [I'm not sure that's how mutlh works. Shouldn't <br>> it be mutlhlu'meH nagh'a' tIn lughommoHlu'ta', or the like?]<br><br>bIlughchu'. vIchoH.<br><br>> >veng loHmeH, qaStaHvIS wej jaj vengDaq ratlhtaH <br>> >ghaH chon taghpa', 'ej ghojwI'Daj SermaDInvaD ngupDaj nob 'avtanDIl.<br>> <br>> He stayed three days to administrate the city <br>> before the hunt, and Avtandil gave his cloak to his student Sermadin.<br><br>I rely a lot on {ngup} in its metaphorical sense of "authority, power" (or "mantle", if you like).<br><br>> [Okay, now I'm confused. Is this a flashback to <br>> Avtandil's role in administration of the royal <br>> city before he left, or by virtue of his great <br>> beauty and conversational skills he suddenly is <br>> put in charge of a border city. Did you mean cho' <br>> and not che' earlier? Did I miss something? Or <br>> am I just failing to grasp the cultural context <br>> that Avtandil simply possesses everything he passes through?]<br><br>No, as you worked out in the next paragraph, 'avtanDIl already had the role of administering this city. I'm a little loath to change the order of presentation of facts in the story, but from what you say, this might be one that needs cutting out from here and putting earlier in the narrative.<br><br>> >nItebHa' toy'wI'vam'e' 'avtanDIl'e' je luQorghlu'pu';<br>> <br>> Acting together the servant and Avtandil were cared for.<br><br>*Had been* (-pu') cared for - that is, they were brought up together by roStevan. I'll change this, though:<br><br>puqpu' chaHtaHvIS toy'wI'vam'e' 'avtanDIl'e' je nItebHa' luQorghlu'pu'.<br><br>(naDev poD mu'tlhegh law')<br><br>> >mubechqu'moHpu'bogh be'vo' DaH tIqwIj DuQtaH <br>> >bel'a'. tIna'tInvaD muDuQtaH parmaqna';<br>> <br>> Ecstasy from the woman who has made me suffer so <br>> now pierces my heart. True love for Tinatin infuses my soul.<br>> <br>> >SeparDu'wIj bIrDaq pubchoH tIqwIj 'Iw tuj; wej <br>> >bepwIj vISo'pu'bogh vI'anglaHbe'pu'.<br>> <br>> In my cold [body parts metaphorized as gemstones] <br>> the warm blood of my heart comes to a boil. I <br>> could not yet reveal the agony I had hidden.]<br><br>Um. Which body parts specifically does the metaphor of {SeparDu'} make you think of? I was hoping that the simile of "eyes as hard as Separ" from KGT would make people think of the eyes (Separ is the standard metaphor I'm using throughout for the eyes), but you've just made me realise that there's another entirely different reading possible in this instance, involving the qIvonDu'. You and your dirty mind. :P Is it the qIvonDu' you were thinking of?<br><br>> >'ach DaH jItulchoHta' 'e' mura' be'vetlh, vaj jIbelchoH 'e' Dalegh.<br>> <br>> But now I have taken hope again and that woman <br>> commanded me, thus you see me become pleased.<br><br>'e', not 'ej: "But now that woman has commanded that I take hope [again]". I cheated a bit with the prefix trick on a verb that governs 'e', which I don't know whether it's possible.<br><br>> >mujatlh tIna'tIn: ‹ngabta'bogh SuvwI' bopbogh <br>> >De''e' yIghoj, ghIq choghoS, 'ej tIqlIj parmaq vIpupmoH.<br>> <br>> Tinatin told me, <Find out about the warrior who <br>> disappeared and then come to me and I will perfect the love in your heart.<br>> <br>> > loDnalwI' Damoj SoH neH vIneH, latlh <br>> > vIneHbe'qu'; tIqwIjDaq lav pochbogh Sor'a' 'oH SanwIj'e'.›<br>> <br>> I want only you to become my husband. I want no <br>> other. My fate is a bush a great tree plants in <br>> my heart. [Or possibly a great tree that planted <br>> a bush in my heart. Trees planting bushes confuse me]><br><br>It's another one of the metaphors that runs throughout the whole bom. You might remember that early on, 'avtanDIl is compared to a tree («woch; Sor rur»), and in many places through the original poem he is simply referred to as "the tree", "the cypress-formed", and such. The shrub is similarly a metaphor for love here ("plant the violet of hope in my heart, strew roses", etc.) (though I've only just realised the coincidence that {lav} "shrub" and English "love" are homophones - that wasn't intentional). The English version of this line is literally "a planted tree [i.e. Avtandil] falls to my lot", but I deliberately didn't resolve the {-bogh} clause in the Klingon so that either reading (or both) is possible: her fate could be either the love that the man plants, or alternately, the man who plants the love. (But I'm not deliberately trying to confuse, I swear! The metaphor in this poem is just really, really dense.)<br><br>jIH:<br>> SKI: 'avtanDIl thanks roStevan for the <br>> commendation, goes to make the announcements as <br>> promised, and then returns to inform his pupil <br>> SermaDIn that he intends to depart to carry out <br>> the task that tIna'tIn has requested him to do.<br><br>Qov:<br>> You can see that I couldn't tell that he <br>> returned. What did I miss there? Anyone see that more clearly?<br><br>Fair enough. I'll go back over it and see if I can make that clearer.<br><br>qeSmeylIjmo' qatlho'! ramvam latlh 'ay' vIngeH.<br><br>QeS<br></div> </div></body>
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