tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Aug 19 12:42:08 2013

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Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Sunlight and Starlight

Robyn Stewart (robyn@flyingstart.ca) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']



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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:18.0pt'><span lang=IT style='color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=IT style='font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>Ø<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=IT>'o Qov, jItaghqa' 'e' Dachaw'.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=IT style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>vIchaw&#8217;bej. You probably wanted the imperative there, though. &lt;... &#8216;e&#8217; yIchaw&#8217;&gt;.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=IT style='font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>Ø<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]>jIQochbe'! jIQaghtaHbe'chugh jIghojbe'choH. maSwov lubopbe'mo' QaghwIj,&nbsp;<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>j</span><span lang=IT style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>abbI'IDghom</span><span lang=IT>Daq qajangbe'.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=IT style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>DaH qayajchu&#8217;.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Also if you have formed an idea about Klingon from your long association with TKD and it doesn't match what's being done here, make us defend our usage with canon, not with habit.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>My ideas about Klingon come from speculation rather than usage. Clearly canon is like the tip of an iceberg, giving tantalizing hints about what lies beneath the surface.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Consider for instance the three canon nominalizers: -wI' makes a noun of agency as in muvwI' (at least for non-stative verbs); -ghach makes either a noun expressing a state as in lo'laHghach or a noun expressing a result (or a new state) as in naDHa'ghach; and &lt;null&gt; results in all sorts of nouns that are identical in form to the verb. The apparent non-canon nominalizer -la' is&nbsp;seen only in the noun&nbsp;Qapla', which expresses a result. If Qapla' is not just a unique idiom, could different meanings result from &lt;null&gt;, -ghach, and -la'?&nbsp;The use of nominalizers in English is often idiomatic, and I wonder what the full grammar and usage might be in Klingon. For example, could the verb pab &quot;follow (rules)&quot; result not only in pab &quot;grammar,&quot; but also pabghach &quot;observance (of rules)&quot;, and pabla' &quot;a fair move&quot;? Probably not, but the possibilities are vast and we'll never find out all Maltz knows! Do'Ha'!<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We know that using &#8211;ghach on a bare verb is awkward-sounding, so it&#8217;s more of a nominalizer of a the verbal concept expressed by the verb and other suffixes.  I&#8217;ve never heard anyone speculate that la&#8217; could be a productive suffix. Ending in &#8211;la&#8217; I can think only of qo&#8217;la&#8217;, Qapla&#8217;, and from qep&#8217;a&#8217; the uncertainly-spelled jaqta&#8217;la&#8217;. The first is obviously a loanword. If the third were a nominalization of being bold it would be almost embarrassingly hilarious, seeing as a producer made it up and only cleared it through Marc afterwards.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Those of you who have become proficient in Klingon demonstrate what can (or can't) be expressed in accordance with canon. This has helped guide MO to expand on topics like comparatives and superlatives, which he barely touched in TKD. You are like test pilots. I might get a little stick time, but I'm a slide-rule guy.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>As long as you&#8217;re enjoying the game.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>-<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Qov <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>P.S. If anyone can give me a tutorial on marking attributed text in Outlook, I&#8217;d be pretty grateful and so would others who are trying to figure out what my part is in an ongoing thread.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></body></html>
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