tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Feb 10 09:21:35 2011

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Re: {rIn}

lojmIt tI'wI' nuv ([email protected]) 

I suggest that the Rick Endres fan novel's example would have been much better stated as:

jIrInta'DI' SarI'.

As given, I read {SapongDI' rInta' jIH} as "When I name you, the viewing screen will have accomplished being finished."

Maybe he was waiting for Windows to finish booting up so that he could choose from a list of names on his computer?

The problem is that the verb doesn't have a first person prefix, so one is easily led to interpret {jIH} as a third person noun, and that word has meaning as a third person noun. Also, the time trigger should be the finishing, not the calling, and I think {rI'} is a much better verb for this, since {pong} means "call" as in "They call him Strider", not "call" as in, "Call me when you are ready."

pItlh.
lojmIt tI'wI' nuv



On Feb 10, 2011, at 11:48 AM, Steven Boozer wrote:

> Here's all I have in my notes:
> 
> {rIn}  be accomplished, be finished (v.)
> 
> NON-CANONICAL examples:
> - Yej rhin "Council is adjourned!" (DS9 "House of Quark" [CC])
> - rInpu' It is finished. Done! The end! (Proechel)
> - rInpu', latlh yIqem It is finished. Bring another. (Perry)
> - rIn jabbI'ID Transmission ends. (Mailing List)
> - rIn DuSaQ School's out (Proechel)
> - SapongDI' rInta' jIH I will call as soon as I have finished.
>   (Rick Endres' fan novel "The Daystrom Project")
> 
> 
> {rIn}  "over" (radio communication) (ST6)
> 
> Used in ST6 when the Enterprise crossed into Klingon space at Mortagh Outpost Three (N.B. Kesla is speaking in Morskan dialect and Uhura's Klingon is very rusty):
> 
> KESLA:  <morska> jIH.  Dujvetlh 'oH nuq?  rIn. 
>        This is listening post Morska. What ship is that? Over. 
> UHURA:  tongDuj 'urISva' maH.  jav Hogh maH Qo'noSvo'.  rIn.
>        We am thy freighter... Ursva... Six weeks out of Kronos. [Over.] (sic!)
> KESLA:  nuqDaq ghoS?  rIn. 
>        What is your destination? Over. 
> UHURA:  rura' pente'Daq Soj, Doch, <luch?> vIqIch.  rIn. 
>        We is condemning food...things and supplies to Rura Penthe. Over. (sic!)
> 
> 
> 
> {rIntaH}  It is accomplished! It is done! (cf. {pItlh}) 
> 
> The meaning of {-ta'} can also be indicated syntactically. That is, instead of using the suffix {-ta'}, a special verbal construction can follow the verb which indicates the accomplished action. This special verb is {rIn} "be finished, accomplished", and in this usage it always takes the suffix {-taH} "continuous" ... and the third-person pronominal prefix (0). The resulting construction, {rIntaH}, literally means "it continues to be finished" or "it remains accomplished". It is used to indicate that the action denoted by the preceding verb is a fait accompli: it is done, and it cannot be undone.
>    luHoH rIntaH   they have killed him/her
>    vIje' rIntaH   I have purchased it. 
> The English translations of {rIntaH} and {-ta'} are usually the same. The notion of absolute finality implied by {rIntaH} seldom comes across. It should be noted that {rIntaH} is sometimes used for dramatic effect even in cases when the action could be undone. (TKD 41)
> 
> - qa'vam De' vIje' rIntaH I have purchased the Genesis Data. (ST3)
> 
> NON-CANONICAL example:
> - vum rIntaH wa'vatlh loS  104 are retired. (Lieven)
> 
> 
> {pItlh} Done! All finished! (cf. {rIntaH})
> 
> {pItlh} is used for "It's done! I've done it! I've finished! All done!" etc. (TKD 57)
> It's "a common exclamation uttered upon the completion of a project." (KCD)
> "Expression, indicating accomplishment." (KLS)
> 
> - jabbI'ID pItlh Transmission completed. (ST3)
> 
> NON-CANONICAL example:
> - All the crew said, "{pItlh}." (KCD novel)
> 
> 
> --
> Voragh                          
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
> 
> 
>> ________________________________________
>> From: lojmIt tI'wI' nuv
>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:36 AM
>> 
>> The first use of {rIn}, I believe, was in ST3, primarily invented as
>> another couple syllables to explain why valQIS's lips were still moving
>> after she had said everything that the actual Klingon translation
>> required. This was one of those scenes where the actress is literally
>> saying in English what the English subtitles say she's saying, and then
>> Okrand gave her a Klingon version to overdub later. The original
>> Klingon translation had fewer syllables than the English, so he came up
>> with {rIntaH} to tag on to the end so sound would be coming out while
>> her lips were moving.
>> 
>> That explains the odd grammar. It's what we get for having a language
>> based upon a series of movies; one of the quirks that Okrand likes so
>> much, since it makes the language less regular and therefore more like
>> a natural language. Deal with it.
> 
> 
>> ________________________________________ 
>> From: Fiat Knox
>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 10:10 AM
>> 
>>> rIntaH carries with it a sense of great finality, stronger than the
>> use of the -ta' prefix. As such, with the -taH suffix, {rIn} carries
>> either no prefix, or a null prefix:-
>>> 
>>> jaghwI' vIHoHpu' - I killed my enemy. (Perhaps he fell on my naked
>> blade by accident)
>>> 
>>> 'oy' vISIQpu' - I endured the pain.
>>> 
>>> jaghwI' vIHoHta' - I killed my enemy. (I set out to kill him, and I
>> have done so).
>>> 
>>> 'oy' vISIQta' - I embraced the pain, deliberately choosing to endure
>> it.
>>> 
>>> jaghwI' vIHoH rIntaH - I killed my enemy, once and for all. (I have
>> fulfilled great honour by killing my enemy, and this matter is resolved
>> beyond resurrection. Let nobody here dispute this, because this took
>> place under the naked bloody stars and all.)
>> 
>>> 
>>> 'oy' vISIQ rIntaH - I endured this pain until the pain was defeated
>> and destroyed, and this pain shall bother me no more.
>>> 
>>> I also surmise its use in formal communications, the equivalent of
>> "Over" in radio comms chatter, as exhibited by Commander Uhura's
>> mangled attempts at Klingon in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
>> and the communications from the Morske Listening post ending "rIn?"
>>> 
>>> Further enlightenment would be welcome.
>>> 
> 
> 
> 
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Felix Malmenbeck
>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:30 AM
>> 
>> rIntaH is a special word that's sometimes used instead of the -ta'-
>> suffix to denote a "notion of absolute finality".
>> Check out page 41 in TKD; it explains the usage of this word.
>> 
>> The only canonical examples I know of are luHoH rIntaH ("They have
>> killed him/her.") and vIje' rIntaH ("I have purchased it.").
>> Extrapolating from the second of these examples, I think it's safe to
>> say that your sentence would be paq vIlaD rIntaH.
>> 
>> According to TKD, rIntaH follows the verb it modifies, so supposedly
>> "The man buys the targ." would be translated as targh je' rIntaH loD.
>> However, the only canonical examples are phrases of the form (verb
>> prefix)-(verb) rIntaH, so for all we know it could also be targh je'
>> loD rIntaH (here rIntaH follows the verb; just not directly).
>> 
> 
> ________________________________________
>> From: André Müller [[email protected]]
>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 15:36
>> 
>> I came across the verb {rIn} again, translation: "be accomplished, be
>> finished", for which I have one example sentence (Voragh, do you have
>> more?):
>> 
>>  {luHoH rIntaH.}
>>  They have killed him.
>> 
>> We can clearly see that this is not a usual construction in Klingon, the
>> pronoun {'e'} is not involved, its just two verbs after another. What's
>> the relation between them? And how does the construction work with other
>> persons? {luHoH} clearly means "they-kill(ed)-him", but does {rIntaH}
>> mean "they-are/have-finished" or {it-is/has-finished}? If I want to say
>> something like "I have finished reading the book." with this construction,
>> is it  {paq vIlaD jIrIntaH.} (I am being finished reading the book.) or
>> {paq vIlaD rIntaH.} (It is being finished that I read the book.)? What
>> do you think?
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
>

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