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RE: New help getting "Self Control" translated into Klingon.

Mystic_Vampyr (Mystic_Vampyr@warpdomain.com)



Thank You Voragh

This was very helpful
Vam'Pyr

-----Original Message-----
From: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org [mailto:tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org] On
Behalf Of Steven Boozer
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 8:26 AM
To: 'tlhingan-hol@kli.org'
Subject: RE: New help getting "Self Control" translated into Klingon.

Vam'Pyr:
>> I need to translate "self control" into Klingon.
>> The context is "The Tome of Self Control".
>> The Tome will guide a klingon on controlling oneself in matters of
>> battle and duty.
>>
>> I know control is SeH.

De'vID jonpIn:
><SeH'eghmeH> "in order to control oneself".  That can be the name of the
>book by itself.  We know of at least one book with a verbal clause for a
>title, <jabmeH> "In Order to Serve", which is mentioned in KGT (p. 86).

*(SeH'eghmeH paq} is exactly how I would say it.  In this case a purpose
noun with {-meH} is better than a {-ghach}'ed noun.  As it happens, some
years ago David Barron coined *{SeH'eghtaHghach} "self-control" (cf. _In the
land of invented languages: Esperanto rock stars, Klingon poets, Loglan
lovers, and the mad dreamers who tried to build a perfect language_ by Arika
Okrent [New York: Spiegel & Grau, 2009], p. 268f.)  

The pattern {VERBmeH paq} is known.  {DevmeH paq} "guidebook, handbook" has
inspired a series of book types on the List; e.g.
  
  *{ghojmeH paq}  textbook, primer
  *{laDmeH paq}   a reader, chrestomathy
  *{lengmeH paq}  travelogue (book), travel guide
  *{pabmeH paq}   grammar book, reference grammar
  *{vutmeH paq}   cookbook

>There's really no need to indicate that it's a "tome", since that is
>presumably self-evident to your (Klingon) audience.
>But if you want to indicate that it's a "tome", you can use <paq'a'> "great
>book, major book".  Maybe something like <SeH'eghmeH paq'a'> "great book
>for controlling oneself" or <Sun paq'a'> "great book of discipline".

I agree with De'vID.  *{paq'a'} is a good translation of "tome", but I think
that just {paq} works fine.  Sometimes it's over-kill to try to translate
every little nuance of the English.  We know of a couple of other {paqmey}
in Klingon:  

  SuvwI' DevmeH paq 
  A Warrior's Guide[book]  TKW

  tlhIngan ghobmey paq 
  Klingon Book of Virtues [the original title of TKW]

... and of course there's the *Paq'batlh* - *{batlh paq}? - which includes
the Eleventh Tome of Klavek (describes how Kahless came back from the
afterlife) from VOY "Barge of the Dead".  BTW, this would seem to imply
that, at least for the Paramount writers, "tome" is a subset of {paq},
another reason to avoid *{paq'a'}.

Other nouns to consider are {ghItlh} "manuscript" and {tetlh} "roll, scroll"
depending on the format of your "Tome of Self-Control".

Alex Greene:
> [Sun paq'a'] probably works best, given the Klingon propensity for
directness,
> or even [batlh DameH Sun paq'a'] "The Great Tome of Discipline for
Behaving
> Honourably" given their inclination towards being guided by honour in
one's
> words, thoughts and deeds.

*{Sun paq} isn't bad either.  Nice and simple.


Vam'Pyr, here's what I have WRT discipline ({Sun}) and self-control in my
language notes FYI:

KCD:  "Kahless is the Klingon who brought discipline, order, and honor to
the Klingons." 

KGT 72:  Traditional Klingon music ... whether composition or performance,
is considered a discipline not unlike a martial art.

KGT 150:  {Duj ngaDHa'} IDIOM:  "person who is wildly irresponsible, out of
control, undisciplined" 

KGT 151:  Even though Klingon doctors generally have thriving practices and
a doctor is always part of a ship's crew, not only is being under a doctor's
care considered a sign of weakness, but it is also regarded as a
relinquishing of self-control.

KGT 167:  [{'Igh} "be cursed/jinxed"] is a slang term with no known origin.
It can be applied to just about anything--persons, missions, ships, and so
on--when everything seems to be going wrong. Since Klingons consider
self-control a great virtue, declaring oneself to be cursed is comparable to
an admission of weakness and utterly uncharacteristic (though not unknown).
To say that someone else is cursed, on the other hand, is to attribute
weakness to that person. Accordingly, {bI'Igh} ("You are cursed, you are
jinxed") is quite insulting.


 
-- 
Voragh                          
Canon Master of the Klingons











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