tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Dec 02 16:21:38 2009

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Re: Transitivity of <mev> and <tagh>

Christopher Doty (suomichris@gmail.com)



This is cool!!  It is cool because (probably getting myself in trouble...):

All of these examples have <-choH> attached to a verb that describes a
state or a quality (often called in linguistics stative verbs).  It
might well be that <-choH> marks an entrance into a specific state.
The exception to this is for verbs of motion, but since Okrand
specific states that <-choH> goes with verbs of motion, I think that's
fine.  But where do we not see <-choH>? With verbs that actually
describe an action (i.e., active verbs).  Thus, we might expect, with
a verb like <HoH> to occur as <jIHoH 'e' vItagh> "I start killing
stuff" rather than ??<jIHoHchoH>.

Why is this totally cool? Because this distinction is damn near
EXACTLY what you get in PNW languages: to start doing something is
completely distinct from starting to BE something.

I repeat.  COOL!

On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 12:32, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:
> Christopher Doty wrote:
>>>> And with <tagh>, does it occur in a sentence-as-object construction?
>>>> If not, how is it used in canon sources?
>
> Voragh:
>>{tagh}  "begin a process, initiate (proceedings)" [TKDA]:
>>
>>taghbej mu'qaD veS
>>Curse-warfare has definitely begun. PK
>>
>>Qu' DataghDI' 'aqtu' mellota' je yIqaw
>>When you begin a mission, remember Aktuh and Mellota. TKW
>>
>>DaH petagh!
>>[Begin now! (untranslated)] (ENT "Affliction")
>
>
> Since {tagh} is transitive, I don't see any reason why it can't be used in a SAO construction.  I suspect we don't see examples with {... 'e' tagh} because we have the useful suffix {-choH} "change in state/direction":
>
> TKD 37:  Suffixes of this type indicate that the action described by the verb involves a change of some kind from the state of affairs that existed before the action took place.
>  maDo'choH
>   we are becoming lucky
>   we are undergoing a turn of luck
>  ghoSchoH
>   he is beginning to go (somewhere)
> The implication of the second example is that he or she was going either nowhere or somewhere else sometime before the phrase was uttered. Note that the translation of this suffix may be English "become" or "begin to".
>
> maghoSchoHmoHneS'a'
> May we execute a course (to some place)? TKD
>
> yItamchoH
> Be quiet! (Become quiet!) TKD
>
> Du'IHchoHmoH mIvvam
> This helmet suits you. TKD
>
> ghorgh tujchoHpu' bIQ
> When will the water be hot? TKD
>
> nuqDaq waqwIj vIlamHa'choHmoH
> Where can I get my shoes cleaned? TKD
>
> tujqu'choH QuQ
> The engine is overheating. TKD
>
> yItamchoH!
> [Be quiet!] KCD
>
> maDo'chugh QeHchoH wa'
> If we're lucky, one will get angry. CK
>
> bIrchoH SuvwI' 'Iw
> The blood of the warrior grows cold. PK
>
> notlh veS... 'a tugh manotlhchoH je maH
> War is obsolete... as we are in danger of becoming. ST6
>
> wa' jaj 'etlh 'uchchoHlaH tlhIngan puqloD; jajvetlh loD nen moj
> The son of a Klingon is a man the day he can first hold a blade. TKW
>
> 'etlh QorghHa'lu'chugh ragh 'etlh nIvqu' 'ej jejHa'choH
> Even the best blade will rust and grow dull unless it is cared for. TKW
>
> vulchoHbe' tlhInganpu'
> Klingons do not faint. TKE
>
> ropchoHbe' tlhInganpu'
> Klingons do not get sick. TKW
>
> qanchoHpa' qoH, Hegh qoH
> Fools die young. TKW
>
> wa' SuvwI' muHlu'DI', tuHchoH Hoch SuvwI'pu'
> The execution of but one warrior brings shame to all. TKW
>
> bIboH. yIjotchoH
> You're impatient. Calm down! KGT
>
> laS veghaS HIltonDaq <Hov leng: yIjeSchu'> qaSchoHmo', bIlopqu'meH HIlton yIghoS
> Come celebrate the grand opening of Star Trek: The Experience at the Las Vegas Hilton. STX
>
> DoqchoH
> redden ["literally become red or change to red)" (HQ 12.4:9)]
>
>
> --
> Voragh
> Canon Master of the Klingons
>
>
>
>
>






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