tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Dec 01 13:49:14 2009

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Re: Numbers with pronouns

Christopher Doty (

On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 13:25, Steven Boozer <> wrote:
> Why don't you use the verb {tay'} "be together, be united" - {matay'taHvIS} "while we are together"?
> Although some people use it for "together", since {nIteb} is translated "alone, acting alone, on one's own", {nItebHa'} may be closer to "linked together, acting as a unit, etc."  We have only one example from the KBOP Poster:
>  nISwI': cha' chang'engmey (telDaq lujomlu', nItebHa' lubaHlu')
>  Disruptor - 2 Pairs (Wing Mounted, Fire Linked)

I am starting to develop a (decided butch and very Klingon) man-crush
on you, Voragh, because you always give examples!

In this case, I was trying to translate (untranslate?) what is given
in English as "'If we join together, no force can stop us.'"  So, if
nItebHa' has the meaning of "linked together, bound," and perhaps more
literally from its Klingon form, "in concert," then I actually prefer
it here to using the verb <tay'>...  Does that make sense?  The two
hearts aren't just being together, they have joined themselves,
permanently, to one another.

> I would have no problem with
>  ? matay'taHvIS cha' maH
>  ? matay'taHvIS maH cha'
>    while the two of us are together
>    while we two are together
> though I'm not sure of the word order:  NUMBER PRONOUN or PRONOUN NUMBER.

Well, if we go straight from TKD, it should be NUMBER PRONOUN, since
numbers following nouns are used as labels, and not to quantify them.
But I agree, it's kind of ambiguous, and could be either depending...

> In fact, I've often wondered if you even need a pronoun in constructions like these:
>  ? matay'taHvIS cha'
>    while the two of us are together
>    while we two are together
>  ? matay'taHvIS tlhInganpu'
>    while we Klingons are together

With these, I don't think you do need a pronoun.  The examples in TKD
have examples like this with a number and no pronoun, but not any with
a pronoun AND a numeral.

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