tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Dec 01 13:27:18 2009

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RE: Numbers with pronouns

Steven Boozer (sboozer@uchicago.edu)



Chris:
>> <cha' maH, 'ej nItebHa' maHtaHvIS>
>> "We are two, and while we are together..."

Why don't you use the verb {tay'} "be together, be united" - {matay'taHvIS} "while we are together"?

Although some people use it for "together", since {nIteb} is translated "alone, acting alone, on one's own", {nItebHa'} may be closer to "linked together, acting as a unit, etc."  We have only one example from the KBOP Poster:

  nISwI': cha' chang'engmey (telDaq lujomlu', nItebHa' lubaHlu') 
  Disruptor - 2 Pairs (Wing Mounted, Fire Linked) 

>> Does this seem more agreeable?  Can number + pronoun be used in a
>> simple clause like this?

I would have no problem with

  ? matay'taHvIS cha' maH
  ? matay'taHvIS maH cha'

    while the two of us are together
    while we two are together

though I'm not sure of the word order:  NUMBER PRONOUN or PRONOUN NUMBER.  In fact, I've often wondered if you even need a pronoun in constructions like these:

  ? matay'taHvIS cha'
    while the two of us are together
    while we two are together

  ? matay'taHvIS tlhInganpu'
    while we Klingons are together

We have examples of {tay'} used with pronouns, though not together with (!) a number:

st.k ((/1997):  If Kahlor is speaking, he could say, "I am of the House of Molor" {matay' jIH molor tuq je}. Or if one were speaking to Kahlor, one could say, "You are of the House of Molor" {Sutay' SoH molor tuq je}. Literally, these are "The House of Molor and I are together" [and] "The House of Molor and you are together." The independent pronouns ({jIH} "I" and {SoH} "you" in the examples above) are always used in this construction.

And there's the phrase {matay'DI'} "between us, when we're together") 

  matay'DI' vIHtaHbogh bIQ rur mu'qaDmey 
  Between us, curses run like water. PK 

  wa' Dol nIvDaq matay'DI' maQap 
  We succeed together in a greater whole. TKW

though without any pronouns.


>>                               Just to be sure, though: there isn't
>> anything in canon that precludes the use of an adverb with a verbal
>> pronoun; it just seems odd?

SuStel:
>Not that I'm aware of. It does seem odd, though, and lacking any
>examples, I would avoid it.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.  What are you looking for?  Are you saying a pronoun-as-verb has never been used in a clause with an adverbial?

 
-- 
Voragh                          
Canon Master of the Klingons






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