tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Nov 27 12:50:11 2007
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Re: nuqDaq 'oH puchpa''e'?
Voragh:
> >>> The way I read this is that pronoun-as-verb statements of location
> require
> >>> {-taH} on the pronoun, but questions of location (i.e. those with
> {nuqDaq}
> >>> "where?}) do not. Whether the location is temporary or permanent
> seems to
> >>> be irrelevant.
Qang qu'wI':
> >>(unless I missed it) the canon examples appear to leave open how to
> >>ask about a specific location, i.e:
> >> {pa'DajDaq ghaH'a' HoD'e'}
> >>vice
> >> {pa'DajDaq ghaHtaH'a' HoD'e'}
> >>Any thoughts?
Voragh:
> > But, although I would certainly say {pa'DajDaq ghaHtaH'a' HoD'e'}, the
> > {nuqDaq [PRONOUN] [NOUN]'e'} examples I cited earlier do give one
> > pause. Is {-taH} omitted from the pronoun-as-verb because {nuqDaq}
> > expressions are exceptions to the general rules of Klingon syntax, or is it
> > because the location is vague or in question? (I.e. How can something
> > "continue" to be located somewhere if that location has not been actually
> > been established in the first place?)
Qang qu'wI':
>The way MO uses {-taH} in the TKD "to be" section without explanation
>naturally causes one to puzzle over possible explanations. Reading
>between the lines here, MO apparently hasn't further elaborated on
>what he was thinking.
Okrand must have thought the usefulness of distinguishing {[PRONOUN]} vs.
{[PRONOUN]taH} with pronouns-as-verbs was obvious and no explanation was
needed. And it probably was - to him. I've often wondered whether this
"undocumented feature" of Klingon may have been (unconsciously perhaps?)
influenced by the *ser* vs. *estar* distinction or the use of the
subjunctive so common in Spanish, a language we know Okrand knows well.
(Much of the source material in Okrand's unpublished 1977 Ph.D. UC Berkeley
dissertation "Mutsun Grammar" was in Spanish. FYI: Mutsun is an extinct
Amerindian language spoken in what is now called the San Francisco Bay area
of California. For more on Mutsun, see "Is Klingon an Ohlonean language? A
comparison of Mutsun and Klingon" by Dick Grune [April 19, 1996]
<http://www.cs.vu.nl/~dick/Summaries/Languages/MutsunKlingonComparison.pdf>http://www.cs.vu.nl/~dick/Summaries/Languages/MutsunKlingonComparison.pdf.)
>One of the ideas that I originally had was that perhaps it added a
>meaning similar to adding 'right now' in DIvI' Hol. "The captain is
>in his quarters right now." That would allow a distinction along the
>lines of {pa'DajDaq ghaH HoD'e'} "The captain is in his quarters" in
>the sense of "The captain said he was going to his quarters, I didn't
>actually see him in his quarters, but that's where he should be" vice
>{pa'DajDaq ghaHtaH HoD'e'} with the stronger "I just came from there,
>and the captain is in his quarters right now". Of course, since MO
>didn't actually translate that way I've always kept this
>interpretation at a distance.
>
>But ignoring the minor nuisance that the idea is likely totally wrong
>(<g>), that would allow {nuqDaq ghaH HoD'e'} to be the question asked
>indifferent to the extra urgency of the 'right now' sense, whereas
>{nuqDaq ghaHtaH HoD'e'} would then of course be "Where is the captain
>right now?" (informing the respondent to be extra careful about
>certainty of the captain's location).
Of course you could always just say {DaH}. <g>
Another way of adding urgency or emphasis to a statement is with the
emphatic suffix {-qu'} - ?{nuqDaq ghaHqu' HoD'e'!}. E.g.:
naDev Dochvetlh qem!
Bring that here! (pet command) PK
naDev Dochvetlh qemqu'
I really mean it this time! Bring that here! (pet command) PK
Although it has nothing to do with this thread, the simple {-qu'} is often
overlooked. Many of us have gotten into the habit of thinking it means
"very" - which it generally does on qualities - but it has does have other
uses, particularly with action verbs:
yIHaDqu'
study him/her well TKD
nuQaw'qu'be'
they have not finished us off TKD
nom yIghoSqu'
Maximum speed. ST5
maHeghbejqu'
It's certain death. (ST5 notes)
qIrq wItlha'taHqu'
Where Kirk goes, we follow. (ST5 notes)
qara'qu'
That's an order. (ST5 notes)
tIqIpqu' 'ej nom tIqIp
Hit them hard and hit them fast. TKW
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons