tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Dec 29 12:52:02 2006
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next]
Re: "conjunction"?
Paul:
> "conjunction" = /rarmeH mu'/
> "noun conjunction" = /DIpmey rarmeH mu'/
> "sentence conjunction" = /mu'tlhegh rarmeH mu'/
>
>I'm a little against /muv/ for one (possibly silly) reason -- I'm not
>entirely certain its English gloss "join" means what we want. In English,
>one can "join the marines" and "join the words"; context tells us that the
>first means to add one's self to the group, the other means that the
You may be right. All our evidence for {muv} imply joining a group of people:
batlh maHeghbej 'ej yo' qIjDaq vavpu'ma' DImuv
Then we die with honor and join our fathers in the Black Fleet... (Anthem)
jolbogh ghom wa'DIch DamuvlaHmeH De' DaneHchugh, Se'vam yIjIHtaH
Stay tuned for information on how you can be among the first to beam
aboard! STX
Also, the causative verb is {muvmoH} "to recruit" (N.B. the noun is ghuv "a
recruit") and {muvtay} means an "initiation, induction ceremony, initiation
rite".
>action of joining was performed on the objects. /muvmeH mu'/ seems like
>it can be "word to join" or "word for joining". But it's clear that the
>word is performing the act of joining -- /muvbogh mu'/ almost actually
>seems MORE appropriate, because I think it's clear that /mu'/ is the
>subject of the verb /muv/, whereas /muvmeH mu'/ seems like it's not
>necessarily the subject.
>
> muvmeH mu' vISov
> "I know the word for joining" or "I know the word (in order to join)".
>
> muvbogh mu' vISov
> "I know the word which joins."
>
>We kinda had this discussion around /Delbogh wot/ versus /DelmeH wot/. I
>agreed with you at the time, but now I'm not so sure. Looking back over
>the terms we defined, it's the only purpose noun clause in our list -- but
>we have /yu'bogh mu'/ "interrogative" and /qIp(be')bogh wot/ for
>(in)transitive verb, rather than /yu'meH mu'/ and /qIp(be')meH wot/.
>
>Relative clauses seem to be able to stand 'on their own' out of context;
>purpose noun clauses seem a little less specific, and IMHO, don't seem to
>stand up on their own. The example in TKD actually seems to reflect this
>distinction:
>
> ja'chuqmeH rojHom neH jaghla'
> The enemy commander wishes a truce to confer.
>
>/ja'chuqmeH rojHom/ is the purpose noun here, but the /rojHom/ is NOT the
>actual subject of /ja'chuqmeH/... Whereas if this was */ja'chuqbogh
>rojHom/ (the nonsensical "truce which discusses"), the noun /rojHom/ is
>most definitely the subject of the clause...
Your TKD example can be analyzed two ways. As a purpose clause:
ja'chuqmeH, rojHom neH jaghla'.
In order to confer, the enemy commander wishes a truce.
or as a purpose noun:
[ja'chuqmeH rojHom] neH jaghla'.
The enemy commander wishes a truce-for-confering.
where {ja'chuqmeH rojHom} is a sub-class of {rojHom} "truce, temporary
peace" which is itself a type of {roj} "peace".
>Not sure on the /chevmeH mu'/ concept, though (or /chuvbogh mu'/ :)
>because I'm not sure /'ach/ really separates things; punctuation tends to
>do that. ;) Maybe something more like /tlhoch/ "contradict" would be
>appropriate, since conjunctions like 'but' still show a link, but it's
>contrast, rather than separation...
Most of our examples of purpose nouns are just given as citation forms, but
we do have at least four used in complete sentences for you to peruse:
{QongmeH Duj} "[cryogenic] sleeper ship":
tera' vatlh DIS poH cha'maH loS bong QongmeH qItI'nga' Duj tI'ang
ghompu' DIvI' 'ejDo' 'entepray'
A sleeper ship of this [K'Tinga] class, the T'Ong, was encountered
in the 24th century by the USS Enterprise. S15
{ngongmeH Duj} "experimental ship, prototype":
ngongmeH wa' DujDaq nuHmey nISbe'bogh So'wI' jomlu'pu'
[A cloaking device which didn't disrupt weaponry was installed in
one experimental ship. S33 (untranslated on card)
{chenmoHlu'meH Daq} "construction site":
tlhIngan juHqo'Daq tlhIng yoSDaq 'oH toQDuj chenmoHlu'meH Daq wa'DIch'e'
1st Construction Site: The Kling District, Klingon Home World. KBoP
and the specific {qaSuchmeH 'eb} "the opportunity (for me) to visit you":
jIpaSqu'mo' narghpu' qaSuchmeH 'eb
I was too late to visit you.
("Because I'm very late, the opportunity to visit you has escaped.")
(st.k 1/98)
which is clearly the object of the verb {nargh}. (It also shows that the
verb in a purpose noun can be fully conjugated as to subject and
object.) If this were an ordinary purpose clause, you would have to
rewrite this. E.g.:
qaSuchmeH jIpaSqu'mo', narghpu' 'eb
"Because I'm too late to visit you, the opportunity has escaped."
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons