tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed May 11 10:52:56 2005

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Re: Subtle shadings of "then": Okrand's error ?

Lieven L. Litaer ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol ghojwI']

Am Wed, 11 May 2005 04:21:14 -0700 (PDT) hat bob mcfaddin 
<[email protected]> geschrieben:

> Retaining the -chugh, the determination of whether *ghIq* or *ngugh* 
> would be more grammatically correct seems to be one of elapsed time..i.e.

I think using {ghIq} or {ngugh} with {-chugh} sounds wrong, also the 
translation of it:

You say:
> If you do not surrender, at that time (immediately) you die. (say, my 
> knife is at your throat... surrender, or you die, right here, right now)

I think not. It's "that time", not "this time".

> If you do not surrender, subsequently (some time following that) you die.

this sounds wrong in english too, I think:
  "If you do not surrender, and after that, you die."
  "If you are thirsty, and next, you drink."

> vaj - "then, thus, so, in that case"

Exactly, "if X is the case, vaj Y".
(programmers might know this as the IF-THEN loop.)

It's not only used like this, though. One can definitely use it without 
"IF":

  {nuHlIj DawIvpu', vaj yISuv.}
  "You have chosen your weapon, so fight!"
  {De'vetlh vIQoy, vaj jIQuch.}
  "I am happy to hear that information."

  "X is a fact, vaj Y"!

  {bIjeghbe' vaj bIHegh}
  "You do not surrender, so you die."

Actually, the suffix {-chugh} does nearly the same thing:

{bIjeghbe'chugh bIHegh}
"If you do not surrender, you die."
This means pretty much the same, although using {-chugh}, you still have 
the choice :-)

> ghIq - "then, subsequently"

{ghIq} is used when X happens *after* Y:

{bIjeghbe'. ghIq bIHegh}
Grammatically, this means "You do not surrender. And then, you die."
But that doesn't make much sense, unless you give someone an order or so.

> ngugh - "then, at that time"

MO says: "It is used mainly to emphasize that a particular event occurred 
at the same time as something else."

  {bIjeghbe'. ngugh bIHegh}
  "You die and don't surrender at the same time."

Again, this doesn't make much sense either.

I hope my thoughts were helpful, and maybe someone agrees with me ;-)

Quvar.

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