tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed May 11 04:22:13 2005
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Subtle shadings of "then": Okrand's error ?
- From: bob mcfaddin <[email protected]>
- Subject: Subtle shadings of "then": Okrand's error ?
- Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 04:21:14 -0700 (PDT)
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DloraH <[email protected]> wrote:
> > jIHvaD ghoplIj Danob (you give your hand to me)
> > vaj jIHvaD bIjatlh (and then you speak to me)
>
> maj.
How is "then" being used here?
It felt weird to me reading this with /vaj/.
vaj - "then, thus, so, in that case"
ghIq - "then, subsequently"
ngugh - "then, at that time"
(To me) /vaj/ would work if the act of giving you their hand symbolized them "speaking" to you, as in body language.
DloraH
When I first received this comment, I agreed without question. It just sounded"right". And the more I thought about it, the more I realized just how right DloraH actually is!
Dlorah has answered a question that has "bugged" me since I first started learning this language. I always accepted that vaj was "thus, then, so"... but it seemed weird to me that in the classic Klingon catchphrase "surrender or die" as rendered by Okrand, bIjeghbe'chugh vaj bIHegh , that the -chugh (if) suffix implied a conditional response, and that a "thus, so" interpretation only worked if you dropped the -chugh suffix. e.g.
If you do not surrender thus you die (sounds wrong)
If you do not surrender so you die? (sounds wrong) but...
You do not surrender, thus/so/therefore you die. (this one seems more grammatically correct)
Retaining the -chugh, the determination of whether *ghIq* or *ngugh* would be more grammatically correct seems to be one of elapsed time..i.e.
If you do not surrender, at that time (immediately) you die. (say, my knife is at your throat... surrender, or you die, right here, right now, or)
If you do not surrender, subsequently (some time following that) you die.(say, I have disabled your shields. I have disabled your weapons. Surrender now, or I will destroy your city..your actual death may not occur for several minutes, possibly days)
What do the rest of you think?
jajvam lururbogh jajmey'e' lutu'lu' muja'ta' SoSoywI'
juDmoS
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