tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Feb 02 09:12:56 2005
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Re: HolQeD chu' Hevlu''a'?
Voragh:
> >I wonder how the "area nouns" work with {Dab}:
> >
> > ?Chicago qoD vIDab
> > ?Chicago qoDDaq vIDab
> > ?Chicago qoDDaq jIDab
> > "I live in(side) Chicago" (i.e. in the city proper, not on the outskirts)
QeS lagh:
>IMO, 1 and 2 both grammatical (with 1 the most common and unmarked), and 3
>probably incorrect. (As far as we know {Dab} ain't that kind of verb.)
>
> >The first versions without {-Daq} are probably right.
>
>Agreed. I've changed my position slightly - the sentence with {-Daq} is
>likely marked for special emphasis, and not merely a less common version: "I
>don't live next to Chicago, I live *in* Chicago!".
True, but remember that {-Daq} means more than just "in":
This suffix indicates that something is happening (or has
happened or will happen) in the vicinity of the noun to which
it is attached. It is normally translated by an English prepo-
sition: "to, in, at, on". The exact translation is determined
by the meaning of the whole sentence. [TKD 27f]
NB: "in the vicinity of". {Chicago-Daq} would probably refer both to the
city proper as well as the greater Chicago area (i.e. Chicago plus all its
suburbs or "Chicagoland" as we say hereabouts). To be more precise, I
would use one of the "area nouns" - e.g. {qoD} "inside", {Hur} "outside",
{retlh} "area beside, next to, beside" - or even the "direction nouns" -
{chan} "area eastward", {tIng} "area southwestward", {'ev} "area
northwestward".
>In normal situations, {X-Daq Dab} would probably not occur often at all.
Agreed. Okrand goes on to say:
There are a few verbs whose meanings include locative notions,
such as {ghoS} "approach, proceed". The locative suffix need
not be used on nouns which are the objects of such verbs:
{Duj ghoStaH} It is approaching the ship ... If the locative
suffix is used with such verbs, the resulting sentence is some-
what redundant, but not out-and-out wrong: {DujDaq ghoStaH}
"It is approaching toward the ship." [TKD 27f]
Like verbs of motion, {X-Daq Dab} is probably "somewhat redundant, but not
out-and-out wrong".
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons