tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Sat May 15 04:17:13 2004
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Re: {'e'}
- From: "QeS lagh" <[email protected]>
- Subject: Re: {'e'}
- Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 21:16:00 +1000
- Bcc:
jIghItlhpu':
><'e' vItlhobbe'qu' jIH. 'e' tlhob lay'tel SIvten.
>I didn't ask that. Steven did.>
jangpu' lay'tel SIvten:
>is each of these two uses of {'e'} correct?
>the pronoun {'e'} refers to the previous sentence, even if it was used by
>someone else. i think it's perfectly fine in the first sentence above. in
>the second sentence {'e'} should refer to the sentence before it, but in
>fact refers to the same one as the previous {'e'}, i.e. two sentences
>before it. i think {'oH} (or no pronoun at all) should have been used in
>the second sentence.
I have two reasons for thinking that the usage is unambiguous and
acceptable:
1) A sentence which is two sentences previous to another one is still a
"previous sentence". Think of it as {'e' vItlhobbe'qu' jIH ('ej) 'e' tlhob
lay'tel SIvten}.
2) I don't think that {'e' tlhob X} is possible when referring to one of
your own sentences. To say "He asked where the toilet is" you would say
{tlhob. <nuqDaq 'oH puchpa''e'> jatlh.} You can {tlhob} a person - for
instance, {mutlhob Qanqor} "Krankor asked me" (probably better is "Krankor
asked a question of me") - but I am pretty sure you can't {tlhob} a sentence
unless it's someone else's, in which case you *must* use {'e'} so they know
what you're talking about. (Have a look at ST:VI. Azetbur distinctly says at
one point {'e' neHbe' vavwI'}, but {neH} normally doesn't take {'e'}.) This
is true for all other verbs involving actions of speaking AFAIK: {jang},
{jach}, {ghel}, {jat}... you get the picture.
I agree that {tlhob lay'tel SIvten} would work, but not in the way that you
think it does. {tlhob lay'tel SIvten} would be subject-only, translated by
"Steven asked". The null prefix on {tlhob} is [3rd-subject], not
[3rd-subject plus 3rd-object]. So {'e' vItlhobbe'qu' jIH. tlhob lay'tel
SIvten} would be "I did not ask that. Steven asked."
All this, of course, is assuming that I understand the way {tlhob} works.
{{:)
Savan.
QeS lagh
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