tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri Mar 05 16:53:40 2004

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Re: luSpet <<ghor>> qechmey

QeS lagh ([email protected]) 

vIchuppu':

>{ghorHey} "apparent surface"
>{moQHey} "apparent sphere"

ghItlhpu' De'vID:
><-Hey> suggests that the speaker (a hypothetical Klingon
>astrophysicist) isn't sure about the thing described.  But the
>speaker *does* know what it is, we are the ones who don't know
>what he calls it.

True. I have seen {-Hey} used to describe something which resembles the real 
thing: {DevwI'Hey} "apparent leader"; maybe this is where I tripped up.

taH:
>{('otlh/tlham) veH} "(photon/gravity) boundary"

jangtaH De'vID:
>This one I like.  Based on the use of <veH> in <Hov leng vagh>,
>the word <veH> is used for astrophysical boundaries.  The
>"Great Barrier" shown in that movie appeared to have been made
>of energy, so <veH> can apparently refer to boundaries which are
>not "hard"/"solid".

*Most* boundaries aren't solid. There's no solid wall between the USA and 
Canada, for instance. I think {veH} is one of the most promising ideas yet 
suggested.

jIghItlhtaH:

>{ghor rurbogh luSpet veH} "black hole boundary that resembles a planet's
>surface"

jang De'vID:

>'ach ghor rur'a' luSpet veH?

HISlaH. The question is, in which way does it resemble it? I would guess 
that, for Klingons as well as humans, the visual sense would be the most 
important.

(Off topic a bit: I think this is a place where a truly alien language could 
have had loads of fun: no single word for "to resemble", but words for "to 
look like", "to smell like", "to feel like"... in other words, words for "to 
resemble" that are sense-specific.)

jIghItlhtaH:

>{luSpet 'otlh narghmeH veH}, "black hole's photon's escaping boundary"
>{luSpet veH'e' lunarghlaHbe'bogh 'otlh} "boundary of a black hole, which
>photons cannot escape"
>{luSpet tlham veH'e' lunarghlaHbe'bogh 'otlh} "boundary of a black hole's
>gravity which photons cannot escape"

janglI' De'vID:

>Well they certain describe what the event horizon is, but it would
>be like a Terran physicist saying "the boundary around a black hole
>which photons cannot escape due to gravity" instead of "event
>horizon".  Perhaps those are the Klingon technical terms, and once
>the context has been defined, the Klingon clips it to just <luSpet
>veH>.

English didn't have a word for "event horizon" until someone coined it. By 
the same token, I don't think we should dismiss these constructs entirely, 
even if we just shorten them after context has been defined. In this I think 
you are correct. Klingon astrophysicists would probably have a term for 
"event horizon", but since we don't know it, we are restricted, in a sense, 
to the same situation as English was before the coining of the term.

>I personally like the word <ghangwI'> which is literally "that which
>ends prematurely", which I think is a very apt description. But a
>Klingon might not agree with me. :)

I can't get away from {ghangwI'} being the line by which you pilot a plane: 
a straight line that you see from a planet's surface. True, the definition 
of "horizon" that was given in HolQeD 11.2 isn't enlightening on this issue. 
However, it's referred to in the context of piloting a shuttlecraft, so... I 
am as unsure about this as you are about {ghor}.

In view of the usage of {veH} with regard to ST5, and the fact that we both 
agree that it probably doesn't have to refer to a {Hap veH}, I'd use {luSpet 
tlham veH'e' lunarghlaHbe'bogh 'otlh} to define what the event horizon is, 
and use the term {luSpet veH} (or maybe even {tlham veH}) for the event 
horizon.

chaq mu'mey lugh DImughDI', luSpet'e' maja'chuqlaH! reH jIHvaD Daj Hov QeD.

Savan.

QeS lagh

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