tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Wed Jun 30 05:46:03 2004

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Re: models of excellent language use

David Trimboli ([email protected]) [KLI Member] [Hol po'wI']

From: <[email protected]>

> From Nick Nicholas in response to a post by Mark E. Shoulson:
> "And while you don't want to be quoted on Krankor refusing to be
involvedin
> looking at the KBTP [Klingon Bible Translation Project]... I am
astonished.
> Does this man know what being list grammarian means? It means you have a
duty to
> uphold Klingon linguistic standards. And I've said it before: works like
the
> KBTP and any Shapkespeare we come up with will put him out of a job;
*they*
> will lay down the law for Klingon stylistics and grammar, *they* will be
the
> model in print for Klingonists to come. Like it or not, the KBTP is going
ahead;
> blame Kevin Wilson and Lawrence Schoen if you wanted it nipped in the bud.
If
> Krankor does not involve himself in setting the stylistics of this work
> straight, whether he has to hold his nose or no, he is quite simply not
doing his
> job. That's his choice; others will."   (19931207 19:36:25, #52)
>
> Nick said that 10 1/2 years ago.  And even now non-canon work is hardly
ever
> cited as an example of good Klingon.  The principal literature in Klingon
is
> NOT being held up as the model to follow.  For that matter, neither is any
of
> the work in "jatmey" or "Qo'noS QonoS".  The attitude of most of the
experts on
> this list seems to be that if it isn't directly from Okrand, it simply
isn't
> worth considering.  So instead of studying SeQpIr and ghIlghameS to
improve
> our language usage, we study only the paltry samples of text from Marc
Okrand.
>
> I expect Nick would be very disappointed.  I know I am.


Have your posts for the last couple of weeks been trying to annoy people in
retaliation for this disappointment?  You seem to delight in pointing out
problems purely for the purpose of pointing them out.  You're clearly not
interested in this minutiae in order to work on your Klingon., which was
your previous defense.  I dare you to tell me why you need a word for
"scope."

Nick has changed his viewpoints a lot in the last ten years.  He still lurks
on the list; maybe he'll respond to this, and we'll see what he says now.

There are two ways the list could have gone about studying Klingon.

    1. Within the fiction of it being a natural language.
        This means studying it without interfering with it.
        Learning to use it the way Klingons use it.  The
        only way to do this is to study the examples
        Okrand relays to us through Maltz.

    2. As an artificial language.  This requires making
        decrees that change the course of the language.
        Someone at the KLI is an authority and has
        responsibility to control the language.

These two tactics are mutually exclusive, and the first one is the position
of the KLI (I've spoken to Lawrence and Mark about it), Okrand (I've seen a
screening of the Earthlings movie), and the experts on this list.
If Okrand ever transfers control of the language to someone else, then we'll
have to rethink things.

If you prefer option 2, have fun and go make up your own Klingon words, but
do it somewhere other than this list.  Start your own Klingon language list
or group.  Do with it what you like.  No language cops will come to your
house and make you speak Klingon the way we speak it on the list.  You are
not required to obey the majority of the KLI.  But don't do it on this list!
That's not why it's here.

Have you been to Qov's blog?  http://bologh.blogspot.com.  Qov is
successfully using Klingon to write a journal, and people respond to it.
Everything is in Klingon.  It's very good reading, especially because Qov
writes about non-boring things (which, I feel, is the problem with most
blogs).  It's also an excellent model as to what to do with Klingon.  She
doesn't make up words or grammar.  Sure, she makes mistakes sometimes, but
the only thing she makes up are a few name transliterations (mostly of
countries), and she catalogs these transliterations for reference.  For her,
the Klingon language is sufficient in her best judgement as to how Klingons
use it.

Speaking Klingon should be like speaking a foreign language.  You don't go
to the foreign country and tell them how to speak it; you do your best to
speak it THEIR way.  Do the same thing with Klingon: learn to speak it the
way Klingons speak it.  If you stop focusing on the minutiae and try to
understand how Klingon FEELS, you'll realize that it's a very fun language.
We experts aren't crusty old grognards who want to force everyone to stare
at Okrandian canon until their eyes drop out; we want to understand the
principles of Klingon as the Klingons use it, and then apply those
principles to our own speech and writing.  We want to do our best to produce
original sentences that would be acceptable by Klingons.  Try doing that.

SuStel
Stardate 4496.9

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