tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Mon Aug 16 13:49:56 2004

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Re: puvlI'bogh (was Re: nughI')

Steven Boozer ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 

[I haven't been following this thread, so forgive me if I repeat someone 
else's point.]

Quvar:
> >I'm being too exact, I guess, when I say that "drive" is misused for
> >"navigate", and "fly" for "travel through the air".

ghunchu'wI':
>Aside from that, though, the people inside an airplane fly.  I even checked
>two dictionaries -- one paper, one online -- to make sure I wasn't
>confusing my own private definitions for the officially published ones. :-)
>    [....]
>Since the Klingon word {puv} was devised and described by someone whose
>native language is American English, I'm going to assume it means the same
>thing as the English word "fly", which definitely can describe people
>riding in an airplane.

We know that in Klingon, spaceships {puv}.  In fact, our *only* example of 
{puv} in context comes from SkyBox S33:

   Hoch tlhIngan DujDaq So'wI' jomlu'.  puvtaHbogh Duj ngabmoHlaw' So'wI'.
   All Klingon vessels are equipped with a cloaking device, allowing the
   ship to fly in a state of practical invisibility.  (S33)

{puvtaHbogh Duv} = "a flying ship".  (Nothing is said about the people 
aboard it however.)  So when referring to an aircraft, there seems to be no 
question that we can say:

   wa'leS BERLIN(Daq) puv lupDujHomvam.
   This shuttlecraft will fly to Berlin tomorrow.

Until we have more information, we have no idea whether {puv} can also be 
used for the people aboard the vessel, in the sense of "I'm flying to 
Berlin tomorrow" (i.e. travel as a passenger in an aircraft).

   ? wa'leS BERLIN vIpuv.

If you're piloting your own private jet, then {'or} "operate (an aircraft)" 
becomes a possibility; but again, we don't know whether this can be used as 
a verb of motion either.

   ? wa'leS BERLIN vI'or.

But you can get around this by adding a vessel:

   wa'leS BERLINDaq lupDujHomvam vI'or.

It's likely that Klingon {leng} "roam, travel, rove" is used more broadly 
than English "travel" used for the actions of a passenger {raQpo'}.  (Which 
is what I think Quvar is arguing.)  Notice that Okrand does not use "roam, 
travel, rove" in the English translations of the following examples:

   loS... qIb HeHDaq, 'u' SepmeyDaq Sovbe'lu'bogh lenglu'meH He
   ghoSlu'bogh retlhDaq 'oHtaH
   It waits... on the edge of the galaxy, beside a passage to
   unknown regions of the universe. DS99

   HaDlu'meH, QuSlu'meH, SuDlu'meH lojmIt Da logh Hop Hut tengchaH.
   vaj loghDaq lenglaHtaH Humanpu'
   space station Deep Space Nine is the gateway for the exploration,
   intrigue and enterprise that mark the continuation of the human
   adventure into space... DS99

   juHqo' Qo'noSvo' loghDaq lengtaHvIS tlhInganpu'
   During the (aggressive) expansion of the Klingon people from their
   homeworld of Kronos into space... SP1

although "journey" is pretty close to the gloss in this last example from 
the Star Trek: The Experience communique:

   loghDaq lupDujHom qoDDaq bIlengtaHvIS, nIbuQbogh novpu' DaSuv
   Battle menacing aliens in a shuttlecraft journey through space. STX

None of this proves anything, of course.  Personally, I would stick to 
using {leng} or {ghoS} when translating "fly" as a personal verb of motion, 
at least until we get more information.

> >When you travel through the water, would one say "swim"? No, because people
> >can actually do that.
>
>I don't follow that last bit at all.

Although Quvar's English is excellent, he may have forgotten that when 
travelling by boat, both boats and people are said to "sail" not "swim", 
even if there's no actual sail on the boat:  "I'm sailing to Bermuda 
tomorrow."  Here, too, I would just use {leng} or {ghoS}.

[Again, if I've misunderstood both of your arguments, just ignore my post.]



-- 
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

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