tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Thu Oct 16 13:25:10 2003

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Re: KLBC: QojmeH

Steven Boozer ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 

At 12:00 PM Thursday 10/16/2003, Quvar wrote:

>This is certainly a bit more than an standard KLBC, but I'll go into grammar.
>
> > 7. chuq chuq'a' chuqHom je, Qob roj je, yotlh 'och je,
> >    yIn 'eb, Hegh 'eb je ngaS yav
> > 7. EARTH comprises distances, great and small; danger and security;
> >    open ground and narrow passes; the chances of life and death.
>
>{'oS} might be better, because I doubt that the "ground" can contain
>something - a box can.

Since there are so many nouns here, tag the topic noun {yav} with {-'e'}.

   chuq chuq'a' chuqHom je; Qob roj je; yotlh 'och je; yIn 'eb, Hegh 'eb
   je ngaS yav'e'.

I've also changed the punctuation, to group like with like, otherwise you 
have too many nouns in a row  to keep straight - especially the two noun 
phrases {yIn 'eb} and {Hegh 'eb}.


>6. ram pem je, Hat bIr, Hat tuj je, poHHom poH'a' je 'oS muD
>6. HEAVEN signifies night and day, cold and heat, times and seasons.

Same thing:

   ram pem je; Hat bIr, Hat tuj je; poHHom poH'a' je 'oS muD'e'.

> > (f) nuq 'ay'mey yaSmey negh je qeqchu'?
> > (f) On which side are officers and men more highly trained?
>
>be trained = be expert, skilled = {po'}
>{qeqchu'} by itself means "s/he/it trains him/her/them"
>If you want to say that "they have been trained by someone", you can use the
>suffix {-lu'}

Quvar missed this, but you can't use {nuq} "what" to mean "which (of 
several)" as you can in English.  You have to recast this with {ngu'} 
"identify": i.e. "identify the side with the more highly trained officers 
and men".  Okrand has done this a couple of times:

   nuH DaneHbogh yIngu'!
   Which weapon do you want?
   ("Identify the weapon that you want!") KGT

   jar DamaSqu'bogh yIngu'
   What/which is your favorite month?
   ("Identify the month that you very much prefer!") (st.klingon)

   Daq DaDabbogh yIngu'
   Identify the place where you live (i.e. Where do you live?) (st.klingon)
   ("Identify the place that you live at, Identify the place that you 
inhabit")

> > (b) cha' Sa'pu' DaqelDI', laH nIv ghaj 'Iv?
> > (b) Which of the two generals has most ability?
>
>I think {Sa'} is only a rank, but not a person.

Why not?  Ranks refer to the people holding them.  Quvar is right in that I 
don't think we've ever seen a rank with a plural marker; but that may be an 
accident of the database, with no groups of equal ranking officers being 
discussed.

I know that it's not the same thing, but you can refer to a person by just 
his rank:

   ghu'maj Dayajbe'law', Sa'.  (ST5)
   [You don't seem to grasp our situation, General. (ST5 novel)

   'ach HoD, Hevetlh wIghoSchugh veH tIn wI'el maH'e'!
   But Captain, that course will take us into the [Great] Barrier as 
well.  (ST5)

   HoD, naDev maH 'e' luSovbe'.
   Captain, they don't know we're here. (ST5 notes)

But you can always use {ra'wI'} "commander" instead.  That's also very 
Klingon: the {ra'wI'} (us) vs. the {jaghla'} "enemy commander" (them).

BTW, {cha' Sa' DaqelDI'...} is a nice way of finessing the "what/which X" 
problem.  Using {ngu'}, this would be:

   cha' Sa' DaqelDI', laH nIv ghajbogh Sa''e' yIngu'
   "When considering the two generals, identify the general with the 
superior ability."

or just

   laH nIv ghajbogh Sa''e' yIngu'
   "Identify the general with the superior ability."

Again, tag the topic with {-'e'}; in this case it's generals, not 
ability.  And I also tend to omit plural suffixes after a number, but 
that's a matter of personal style.

These are all minor quibbles, though.  HaDoq's translation was very good 
overall.



-- 
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

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