tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Tue Oct 14 15:19:39 2003

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Re: Klingon WOTD: maqoch (n)

Steven Boozer ([email protected]) [KLI Member] 


>On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, [Voragh] wrote:
> > ...Paul wonders:
> > >Hmm.  Play on the English "My Coach"?
> >
> > Really??  In what way is a coach your buddy?  IIRC my own relationship with
> > coaches was always adversarial!  Maybe Okrand had better coaches than I
> > did. <g>

mujang Paul:
>   jIjatlhtaHvIS taghchoH pem.  qa'vInwIj vItlhutlhchoHbe'.  :)
>   "When I spoke, the day'd just begun.  I hadn't started drinking my
>    coffee yet."
>
>I felt like I should've used the adverb /ngugh/ in there, but I wasn't
>sure how to phrase it.  I guess two sentences could've been used:
>
>   'eq.  ngugh jIjatlh.
>   "It was early.  At that time, I spoke."
>
>But that just sounds really clunky.

Do you really need {ngugh} "then, at that time"?  You didn't use it in your 
English.  What other time are we talking about that could confuse us?  How 
about just saying:

   jIjatlhtaHvIS 'eq.
   "While I was speaking (when I spoke), it was early."

This sounds better if we reverse the clauses:

   'eq jIjatlhtaHvIS.
   "It was early when I was speaking."

You don't always have to put the {-taHvIS} clause first.  YMMV.

>                                     I also decided I didn't really like
>the idea of using /'eq/ with an implied subject -- Especially because I
>think the English phrase "early" implies the day, but the Klingon /'eq/
>really refers to a timetable.  Something is early (for something).

That would be an implied subject: i.e. what is early.  Here's {'eq} in canon:

   'eq
   She's early. CK

That's it.  Let's look at how Okrand's used the antonym {paS} "be late":

   paS
   He's late. CK

Okrand translated "I was too late to visit you" in three variations on 
startrek.klingon (Jan. 1998):

   jIpaSqu'mo' narghpu' qaSuchmeH 'eb
   Because I'm very late, the opportunity to visit you has escaped.

   qaSuch vIneH 'ach narghpu' 'eb.  jIpaSqu'
   I want to visit you, but the opportunity has escaped. I am very late.

   qaSuchlaHbe'.  jIpaSqu' vaj narghpu' 'eb
   I cannot visit you. I am very late, thus the opportunity has escaped.

>What I think I really want is to use ngugh in a clause somehow, but maybe
>not...

FWIW here's Okrand's discussion of {ngugh} on st.klingon (11/05/99):

   There is an adverbial which means "then" in the sense of "at that time" (as
   opposed to "subsequently"). And there is also an idiom meaning something 
like
   "by that time." The adverbial is {ngugh}. It is used mainly to emphasize 
that
   a particular event occurred at the same time as something else, though 
{ngugh}
   doesn't indicate what that time is. Something else in the discussion makes
   that clear. {ngugh} does not mean "at some (vague) time in the past" or "at
   some (unknown) time in the future."

And his example sentences:

   vagh SanID ben buDbe' wamwI'pu'. ngugh Ho'Du'chaj lo' chaH, 'ach DaH 
tajmey lo'.
   5,000 years ago, hunters were not lazy. Then (at that time) they used their
   teeth, but now they use knives.

   DungluQ tIHIv. ngugh Qongbe' chaH
   Attack them at noon! They won't be sleeping then.
   ("Attack them at noon. They're not sleeping then.")

>How would you convey the idea, "It was early, I hadn't had my coffee yet"?
>I definitely think it's doable in Klingon, the question is, what are the
>various ways we can express it?

If we can use {'eq} without an definite subject - and I think we can, cf. 
{SIS} "it's raining", {qay'be'} "it's not a problem", {Do'Ha'} "[That is] 
Unfortunate" (ST3), {Hurgh} "It is dark" (ST:C KLS) - this is easy: Use 
{wej} "not yet":

   'eq; wej qa'vInwIj vItlhutlh.

Personally, I would use {-pu'} to show that I hadn't finished drinking my 
coffee, but Okrand doesn't (note especially the TKW example):

   wej vIlegh
   I don't see him yet. TKD

   wej
   Don't do it yet! TKD

   wej Heghchugh vay', SuvtaH SuvwI'
   A warrior fights to the death.
   ("If someone has not yet died, a warrior keeps on fighting"). TKW

I guess here you don't really need it since you hadn't drank *any* of your 
coffee yet.  So, back to your original sentence:

   jIjatlhtaHvIS taghchoH pem.  wej qa'vInwIj vItlhutlhchoH!

   'eq jIjatlhtaHvIS.  wej qa'vInwIj vItlhutlhchoH!

N.B. When using {wej}, don't use {-be'} with the verb.  {wej} is already 
negative.

[How's that for a long answer to a simple question!  <g>]



-- 
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons

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