tlhIngan-Hol Archive: Fri May 02 15:09:29 2003
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Re: KLBC: Hoch, 'op & ordering
...Paul wrote:
>The TKD basically tells us straight up that if you're counting something,
>the numbers are placed before the noun, such as in /loS puq/ "four
>children". Then there are some nouns that are kinda like numbers...
>/Hoch/ "all", /'op/ "some", /bID/ "half". How are these used?
>Where in the references are they described (and/or, what are the
>canonical examples)?
Since this can be answered by looking at canon, I'll play through...
{bID} has long been an item of contention, but we finally got an example in
the BoP Poster:
cha' choQmey naQ tu'lu' 'ej tep choQ bIngDaq lo' law' bID choQ tu'lu'
2 Full Decks and a Half Utility Deck under the Cargo Deck
Note that {bID choQ} is "a half deck", which *may* be the same thing as
"half of the deck" (singular). We're still not sure how to say "half of
the decks" (plural) -- as in, say, "half of the decks are open to space".
See below for {Hoch} and {'op}.
>If I wanted to say "some children", do I say /'op puq/ (use it like a
>number) or /puq 'op/ (use it like a noun-noun construction)?
{'op puq}
The noun {'op} precedes the noun it modifies. We have an example from
SkyBox S7:
'ej DujvamDaq 'op SuvwI' tu'lu'bogh po' law' tlhIngan yo' SuvwI' law'
po' puS
It [IKC Pagh] has... some of the finest warriors in the Klingon fleet.
>If I wanted to say "all my fingers", would I say /Hoch nItlhwIj/ or
>/nItlhwIj Hoch/?
If the noun following Hoch is explicitly plural, it means "all"; if it is
singular, it means "each" or "every". (Note that this is one case where
you cannot omit the plural suffixes, which are usually optional.) Thus:
{Hoch nItlhmey} = "all the fingers" (i.e. collectively)
{Hoch nItlh} = "each finger, every finger" (i.e. separately)
We also have an example of {Hoch} used with a possessive suffix:
Hoch jaghpu'Daj HoHpu'
He/she has killed all his/her enemies. KGT
Thus:
{Hoch nItlhmeywIj} = "all my fingers"
?{Hoch nItlhwIj} = "each of my fingers, every one of my fingers"
[I'm not sure of this last one, but it seems to make sense.]
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons